Hi guys,
I noticed that I have an unused guitar sitting in my cupboard - a $500 (australian) ESP. I was wondering what it would take to change this into a midi controller? No one uses the guitar so I figured it could be cut into a little bit!
I just want to be able to use it to trigger synths - like say in Reason when I get it... or samples in any other VST...
Any ideas?
Thanks,
Vinay
Modifying guitar for MIDI use
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- KVRAF
- 5379 posts since 22 Jul, 2006 from Tasmania, Australia
Hey there,
It's not much trouble to install a divided pickup if the bridge and butt suits it. What sort of bridge does yours have, and also is the top flat? I think that there are basically two makes when it comes to midi guitar. One is Roland(GI-20 and GR series controllers,GK pickup) and the other is Terratec(Axon controllers and pickup). There are also midi specific guitars built by Yamaha. Midi guitar is really cool if your soundcard has low enough latency, under 10 ms should be fine. I run my Ibanez into a GI-20, and the only problem I have had with it is that I can't play piano and mallets(synth not sampled) patches without triggering double notes. I think it cost about $800 for the controller and pickup, but I don't regret it at all. If you let me know the model, I can try find it on the net and let you know if there would be any probs.
Hope you enjoy midi guitar as much as me, nix
It's not much trouble to install a divided pickup if the bridge and butt suits it. What sort of bridge does yours have, and also is the top flat? I think that there are basically two makes when it comes to midi guitar. One is Roland(GI-20 and GR series controllers,GK pickup) and the other is Terratec(Axon controllers and pickup). There are also midi specific guitars built by Yamaha. Midi guitar is really cool if your soundcard has low enough latency, under 10 ms should be fine. I run my Ibanez into a GI-20, and the only problem I have had with it is that I can't play piano and mallets(synth not sampled) patches without triggering double notes. I think it cost about $800 for the controller and pickup, but I don't regret it at all. If you let me know the model, I can try find it on the net and let you know if there would be any probs.
Hope you enjoy midi guitar as much as me, nix
I wonder what I want in here
-my site is gone and music a mess
-my site is gone and music a mess
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- KVRAF
- 3038 posts since 12 Mar, 2002 from Central NY
There also pitch2midi plugins available for WAY less.
These are usually mono but I've gotten good results
using them for lead and bass lines. AND there's no
modifying involved..setting up a hex system can be
a little tricky if you have no experience.
That's
not to say that the Roland and Axon systems are'nt
great....but they are not everyone's cup of tea.
All types of guitar/midi converters require some
adjustment of your playing technique. Generally,
they require you to play more cleanly. For some
this is not much of an imposition...for others its
a dealbreaker. A hardware system is a big investment.
I strongly suggest that, if you are able, demo one
in a music store before you take the plunge.
Cheers...CL
These are usually mono but I've gotten good results
using them for lead and bass lines. AND there's no
modifying involved..setting up a hex system can be
a little tricky if you have no experience.
That's
not to say that the Roland and Axon systems are'nt
great....but they are not everyone's cup of tea.
All types of guitar/midi converters require some
adjustment of your playing technique. Generally,
they require you to play more cleanly. For some
this is not much of an imposition...for others its
a dealbreaker. A hardware system is a big investment.
I strongly suggest that, if you are able, demo one
in a music store before you take the plunge.
Cheers...CL
Last edited by CapnLockheed on Thu Oct 25, 2007 1:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
the secrets to old age: Faster horses, Richer Women, Bigger CPU's
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- KVRAF
- 3038 posts since 12 Mar, 2002 from Central NY
the secrets to old age: Faster horses, Richer Women, Bigger CPU's
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- KVRAF
- 5629 posts since 22 Sep, 2005
I'd go for WIDI VST & or standalone as they are polyphonic allowing you to detect chords. MIDIFIER is another one but is monophonic. Also I believe the latests version of Melodyne does polyphonic extrapilation, just not sure if its realtime..
L
L
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 297 posts since 15 Jun, 2007
Well the guitar has a normal cheapo fixed bridge with string through the body. My "good" guitar has a double locking floyd rose tremelo but i've blocked off the bridge with a bit of wood, so the tremelo is not functional. (but the tone is oohh so much better!)
Would it be more worthwhile doing this on my "good" guitar? I was thinking I could get it done on the cheaper one.. because its no biggy if it doesnt work... I have a whole list of stuff to get/buy before this... but its something I want to do at some stage...
I looked at that nuton pitch2midi program --> it seems to have a built in 46ms latency... thats surely not good for realtime playing surely. My audio interface is a Presonus firebox, I can get it at quite low latency without too many problems.
All these systems seem to cost $800 or so - is there nothing that registers the guitar signal, converts it to midi, and allows you to plug say midi cables into the guitar? without the box in the middle? (thanks for the replies btw)
Vinay
Would it be more worthwhile doing this on my "good" guitar? I was thinking I could get it done on the cheaper one.. because its no biggy if it doesnt work... I have a whole list of stuff to get/buy before this... but its something I want to do at some stage...
I looked at that nuton pitch2midi program --> it seems to have a built in 46ms latency... thats surely not good for realtime playing surely. My audio interface is a Presonus firebox, I can get it at quite low latency without too many problems.
All these systems seem to cost $800 or so - is there nothing that registers the guitar signal, converts it to midi, and allows you to plug say midi cables into the guitar? without the box in the middle? (thanks for the replies btw)
Vinay
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- KVRer
- 2 posts since 23 Oct, 2007
Afaik, the Axon uses a special technique that allows to recognise the actual tone faster than a usual pitch2midi application. The tone is predicted in the moment the string is set into motion, even before you can hear the actual tone.
But it might be that the Roland use a low-latency-technique, too.
If you want to save costs you can either buy a used converter or a Midi guitar by Behringer, they are quite cheapo, but I dunno how good they are.
But it might be that the Roland use a low-latency-technique, too.
If you want to save costs you can either buy a used converter or a Midi guitar by Behringer, they are quite cheapo, but I dunno how good they are.
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- KVRian
- 529 posts since 7 Apr, 2003 from Nashville
Try WIDI. It's cheap and using my guitar signal it's happy driving all kinds of softsynths I've tried including Reason.
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- KVRist
- 214 posts since 29 Dec, 2006
Pitch to MIDI plugins won't let you play chords, so they're basically useless much of the time.
There are some guitars that have an USB connection, but just for audio AFAIK, not MIDI. For MIDI, you'll need a hexaphonic pickup and controller.
If you want cheap, Terratec has this http://audioen.terratec.net/modules.php ... cle&sid=36 which looks great for use with a computer, but I have no idea how good it is. As to the pickups, you can get something like this http://audioen.terratec.net/modules.php ... cle&sid=33 from most manufacturers, but piezo pickups are better. http://graphtech.com/ghost_info.php is one of the more convenient ones.
There are some guitars that have an USB connection, but just for audio AFAIK, not MIDI. For MIDI, you'll need a hexaphonic pickup and controller.
If you want cheap, Terratec has this http://audioen.terratec.net/modules.php ... cle&sid=36 which looks great for use with a computer, but I have no idea how good it is. As to the pickups, you can get something like this http://audioen.terratec.net/modules.php ... cle&sid=33 from most manufacturers, but piezo pickups are better. http://graphtech.com/ghost_info.php is one of the more convenient ones.
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- KVRian
- 529 posts since 7 Apr, 2003 from Nashville
WIDI is polyphonic, so I can play more than one note at a time. But I think arps is about the extent of it; I've never tried anything like a bar chord.
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- KVRAF
- 5379 posts since 22 Jul, 2006 from Tasmania, Australia
Hey again,
I have never played an Axon, but hear they have good response time. I play my GI-20 with 9ms layency and have no trouble live. Allens music in Melbourne (and hopefully close to you) stock the Roland products, I was able to demo a GR 20 there. Originally I picked this unit up, but my playing style caused a mispitched note once every 5 bars or so. I don't have this problem now with GI-20. I pick really hard, and suspect this was the problem with the GR 20(confusing names, eh). Picking so hard causes problems with piano and mallet synths, it triggers a double note. Rather than change my style, I found I can play pianos by using my softest pick. I don't mind that I ended up with the GI-20(no onboard sounds). I didn't find Roland's synths inspiring at all. I would surely recomend the GI-20 and GK3 pickup, however if you could somehow try the Axon products(I heard their synths are average too) I would certainly do that. It sounds like your guitar is fine to set up a pickup. Roland and Axon are interchangeable 13 pin types, and from the looks of it fit up the same way. The plug unit is fitted by unscrewing the strap lug on the butt. The plug unit has a bracket that you put the screw through. It will sit fine with your flat top. The pickup can be attached on this kind of bridge either by using small screws,adhesive strips, or I superglued mine onto the plate. I guess maybe it is a bit tricky, you need to get the strings less than 1 mm from the pickup, and as close to the saddles as possible. Definitely find someone's to play and see if you like the feel and response before taking the splash. I am going to try these pitch to midi yokes and see how they perform. I only found one when I got into guitar midi, and it didn't output midi, you could only play GM sounds. You could also try Fretted Synth Audio for freeware guitar synths. They use an audio input, and I need to have more of a play with them too, before I could comment on them. I think maybe that Yamaha's EZ series of guitar controllers connect directly with a midi cable, I well may be wrong though. I have heard some really awesome performances with these controllers, sure worth a look. Godin and Bryan Moore among make guitars factory fitted with midi pickups, but it's cheaper to fit up your own, and I think with similar results, although Godin say they tried many configurations with varying results, so maybe not. It's a pity these systems are so expensive, for I think they're well fun. Hope you find someone's to try.
Wishing you satisfying music, nix
I have never played an Axon, but hear they have good response time. I play my GI-20 with 9ms layency and have no trouble live. Allens music in Melbourne (and hopefully close to you) stock the Roland products, I was able to demo a GR 20 there. Originally I picked this unit up, but my playing style caused a mispitched note once every 5 bars or so. I don't have this problem now with GI-20. I pick really hard, and suspect this was the problem with the GR 20(confusing names, eh). Picking so hard causes problems with piano and mallet synths, it triggers a double note. Rather than change my style, I found I can play pianos by using my softest pick. I don't mind that I ended up with the GI-20(no onboard sounds). I didn't find Roland's synths inspiring at all. I would surely recomend the GI-20 and GK3 pickup, however if you could somehow try the Axon products(I heard their synths are average too) I would certainly do that. It sounds like your guitar is fine to set up a pickup. Roland and Axon are interchangeable 13 pin types, and from the looks of it fit up the same way. The plug unit is fitted by unscrewing the strap lug on the butt. The plug unit has a bracket that you put the screw through. It will sit fine with your flat top. The pickup can be attached on this kind of bridge either by using small screws,adhesive strips, or I superglued mine onto the plate. I guess maybe it is a bit tricky, you need to get the strings less than 1 mm from the pickup, and as close to the saddles as possible. Definitely find someone's to play and see if you like the feel and response before taking the splash. I am going to try these pitch to midi yokes and see how they perform. I only found one when I got into guitar midi, and it didn't output midi, you could only play GM sounds. You could also try Fretted Synth Audio for freeware guitar synths. They use an audio input, and I need to have more of a play with them too, before I could comment on them. I think maybe that Yamaha's EZ series of guitar controllers connect directly with a midi cable, I well may be wrong though. I have heard some really awesome performances with these controllers, sure worth a look. Godin and Bryan Moore among make guitars factory fitted with midi pickups, but it's cheaper to fit up your own, and I think with similar results, although Godin say they tried many configurations with varying results, so maybe not. It's a pity these systems are so expensive, for I think they're well fun. Hope you find someone's to try.
Wishing you satisfying music, nix
I wonder what I want in here
-my site is gone and music a mess
-my site is gone and music a mess
-
- KVRAF
- 20928 posts since 22 Nov, 2000 from Southern California
The nice thing about the Roland all-in-one boxes is their sounds are tailor-made for midi guitar work and respond to a guitar more naturally than an external synth or VSTi does. I have both an Axon converter and a Roland GR-09, the Axon responds faster and my external synths are much better quality than what's in the Roland but I still prefer playing the Roland more because of the better response.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 297 posts since 15 Jun, 2007
thanks nix!
i'll have a look at that GI-20... i'd love to get myself a godin guitar.. that was my plan initally... to buy myself a LGX three voice when I graduated from uni. But then I found out about synths, and computer music stuff.. so my money is being spent elsewhere! I have a nice Jackson anyhow...
I tried out that WIDI program... it has a really annoying demo.. surely they coudl give us more than 10 seconds without a 15 second dropout! but it can't really do bends or legato stuff... so thats out for me...
hmm just an addional thing.. the GI-20 + a pickup is more expensive than the GR-20 guitar synth... which comes with a pickup... why would I get the former?
i'll have a look at that GI-20... i'd love to get myself a godin guitar.. that was my plan initally... to buy myself a LGX three voice when I graduated from uni. But then I found out about synths, and computer music stuff.. so my money is being spent elsewhere! I have a nice Jackson anyhow...
I tried out that WIDI program... it has a really annoying demo.. surely they coudl give us more than 10 seconds without a 15 second dropout! but it can't really do bends or legato stuff... so thats out for me...
hmm just an addional thing.. the GI-20 + a pickup is more expensive than the GR-20 guitar synth... which comes with a pickup... why would I get the former?