Sonar 7 Questions???

[Stupid American Pig]

Not to mention when is the last time you saw a steinberg employee address users on this forum...

further if anyone is a long time user of *any* host its silly to spend ten minutes with another host and expect to know the intricacies of it in that time. I still learn new ways to use the feature set in sonar and I have used cakewalk products since Pro Audio 6.

also you could set the "friendly name" for your audio card to assure that it is first in the list of available drivers.

[Omniphonix]

For the record, SONAR has supported VST "natively" since version 6 - not version 7 - and I think calling it an "attempt" would do disservice to how well VST is supported in SONAR.

I won't argue that setting up drivers couldn't be made a little quicker, but c'mon - 10 minutes - really? Why would you restart SONAR when changing buffer sizes? This isn't necessary. For arguments sake I just went and changed devices in SONAR and set them up and even switched back again twice (to mimic the asio4all restart) and it took me less than one minute. As I said, sure it would be nice to be able to switch between ASIO and WDM w/o restarting SONAR (which takes only seconds BTW), but let's not overstate it - is it really an issue one would weight their choice of DAW with?

Okay Brandon, in all fairness, some of that probably had to do with my being new to configuring Sonar's audio drivers. So let me turn this into a constructive suggestion, how about prompting with all the other intro dialogs to setup the audio driver before the audio engine starts? Let me pick exactly which ASIO or WDM driver I'd like to use, which ins and outs to activate, and what buffer size to use.

Also, I'm not coming here to try and bash Sonar or justify my choice of Cubase years ago. I am exploring the usability of other DAW applications to find if there may be something that works better for me than Cubase. So far I have found a number of cons and a few pros. I like the customizable MIDI tools that were added in Sonar 7, but first run through the MIDI editor, I couldn't for the life of me find a scissors tool for something as simple as cutting a note in two.

I like the principals behind ACT, but it would seem the hardware support is fairly limited. Looks like there's mainly a handful of Edirol controllers in that respect. For someone like me with a Novation ReMote SL and plans to buy a Mackie Control Universal, Sonar would be a difficult option. Novation has no remote maps for the Sonar mixer so I would only have Automap Universal for plugins. MCU doesn't appear to support Sonar at all.

I really like the ability to quickly bounce MIDI parts to audio, that is something I have been wishing for in Cubase for as long as I can remember. I'm still undecided on things like audio warping and multi-take comping though, still need to dig into Sonar a bit more. It would be nice if there was a guide somewhere "Sonar 7 for Cubase Users".

[Omniphonix]

Not to mention when is the last time you saw a steinberg employee address users on this forum...

I will give you that, its in my Top 5 list of reasons why I'm exploring other DAW apps. They can't even get it right on their own forums, let alone participate in one of the de-facto community forums.

Also consider I'm not here to give my in-depth analysis of everything Sonar is capable of doing. I'm giving my first, off-the-top impressions from the standpoint of a potential crossgrader. So I suggest fan boys who want to defend their precious DAW in a flame war overt their eyes, for I might hurt their delicate feelings. I have about as much loyalty to Cubase as I have loyalty to a screwdriver or any other tool, and I will jab Steinberg as quick as I'll jab Cakewalk.

[whyterabbyt]

I'm giving my first, off-the-top impressions from the standpoint of a potential crossgrader.

your 'first, off-the-top impressions'?

according to everything I've read, Sonar has always handled VST in a wrapper until their attempt to support it native in Sonar 7.

impressions of what? what you've 'read' (which is wrong) or what you've tried?

[Omniphonix]

your 'first, off-the-top impressions'?

You have never heard the term "off the top of your head"?

impressions of what? what you've 'read' (which is wrong) or what you've tried?

Both really, when we're talking about VST support. Sure, I got my version numbers mixed up when recalling what I've read, but Brandon just confirmed VST was in a wrapper until version 6. Has me wondering why so many plugs that work in Cubase did not scan properly or never showed up at all in Sonar (according to what I've tried).

But sheesh, nevermind... I forgot, you can't discuss any product's faults on KVR without starting a war...

[Omniphonix]

Other things I like about Sonar...

-NO DONGLE!!!

-Windows-only allows them to commit more development resources to the app and hassle with the platform less

-A ton of great plugins included in a product that already sells at a great price

-Fantastic communication and support all over the internet and, from what I've heard, by phone and e-mail too

[nagal]

I better tell my MCU to stop working so well with Sonar since its not supported!

[sarcasm]As far as not supporting MCU, Sonar also does not support Mackie's C4.[/sarcasm]

[WillieJenkins]

Okay Brandon, in all fairness, some of that probably had to do with my being new to configuring Sonar's audio drivers. So let me turn this into a constructive suggestion, how about prompting with all the other intro dialogs to setup the audio driver before the audio engine starts? Let me pick exactly which ASIO or WDM driver I'd like to use, which ins and outs to activate, and what buffer size to use.

You set your WDM/ASIO config once, and then you set which audio input/outputs to use once, thats it. You never have to touch it again unless you get a new audio card. (or unless you use sonar in a mobile situation, but even then, c'mon, it takes a minute). You've spent more time typing about this problem then I've spent actually setting up my ASIO / audio channels in Sonar.

The constructive suggestion is both a bad idea and somewhat pedantic.

Also, I'm not coming here to try and bash Sonar or justify my choice of Cubase years ago. I am exploring the usability of other DAW applications to find if there may be something that works better for me than Cubase. So far I have found a number of cons and a few pros. I like the customizable MIDI tools that were added in Sonar 7, but first run through the MIDI editor, I couldn't for the life of me find a scissors tool for something as simple as cutting a note in two.

Sonar provides MIDI templates you can load, so you can have your MIDI tools emulate other sequencers. Load up the cubase template and cut notes however you like. (This is in all kinds of readme's, help files, tutorial movies on the web etc etc)

I like the principals behind ACT, but it would seem the hardware support is fairly limited. Looks like there's mainly a handful of Edirol controllers in that respect. For someone like me with a Novation ReMote SL and plans to buy a Mackie Control Universal, Sonar would be a difficult option. Novation has no remote maps for the Sonar mixer so I would only have Automap Universal for plugins. MCU doesn't appear to support Sonar at all.

I've been using my MCU flawlessly with Sonar for years now. So many in fact, I can't even remember when Sonar had MCU support. Sonar's MCU support is actually better then Logic, and the control was initially created for use with Logic. Sonar gives you this ini file you can modify so that you can map params however you want, name plugins whatever you want, etc etc.

[WillieJenkins]

But sheesh, nevermind... I forgot, you can't discuss any product's faults on KVR without starting a war...

Once you start discussing a products faults (as opposed to user error and/or ignorance), you can make this statement. Don't get mad cause everyone is calling you out for being patently wrong about everything you're saying.

[blaster78]

Novation has no remote maps for the Sonar mixer

yes they do. available from the website. although my experience in this case is limited to a 49le.

cheers,

steve.

[Brandon Ryan]

Okay Brandon, in all fairness, some of that probably had to do with my being new to configuring Sonar's audio drivers. So let me turn this into a constructive suggestion, how about prompting with all the other intro dialogs to setup the audio driver before the audio engine starts? Let me pick exactly which ASIO or WDM driver I'd like to use, which ins and outs to activate, and what buffer size to use.

I appreciate that constructive suggestion and it's certainly not a bad one. (EDIT - sorry Willie, just saw your post...lol...)

Also, I'm not coming here to try and bash Sonar or justify my choice of Cubase years ago. I am exploring the usability of other DAW applications to find if there may be something that works better for me than Cubase. So far I have found a number of cons and a few pros. I like the customizable MIDI tools that were added in Sonar 7, but first run through the MIDI editor, I couldn't for the life of me find a scissors tool for something as simple as cutting a note in two.

I don't think your intent it to bash SONAR or defend another product, so no worries there. My intent is just to help assure that the facts are clear as best I can.

FWIW: You can assign the scissors for midi notes to whatever you want using the smart midi tools. There are really just three tools, but you can customize them anyway you want. I can see where the initial confusion could arise, but basically you can make split whatever button and/or key combination you like.

I like the principals behind ACT, but it would seem the hardware support is fairly limited. Looks like there's mainly a handful of Edirol controllers in that respect. For someone like me with a Novation ReMote SL and plans to buy a Mackie Control Universal, Sonar would be a difficult option. Novation has no remote maps for the Sonar mixer so I would only have Automap Universal for plugins. MCU doesn't appear to support Sonar at all.

Actually there are lots of controllers supported as ACT presets, including Novation. I've got a ReMote SL here and it works fine. ACT allows you to make your own custom presets very very easily and then save them. I think maybe not enough people realize this and feel that if the default preset doesn't work the way they expect it to, that there is a problem (perhaps understandable from a cursory inspection). Double clicking on any control allows you to reassign it and then save that as your own ReMote SL preset or whatever. As far as the MCU...I actually use this myself and there is good control surface support for it and the XT's...not ACT support mind you, but the MCU is supported directly for transport, mix parameters, loop, save, etc. I use the MCU for its control functions and then use some other controllers for ACT (PCR800/ReMote 25SL/UC33). You can have more than one ACT controller (up to 16 i believe) and these can work in conjunction with your supported control surfaces (i.e. MCU, AWS, etc...)

I really like the ability to quickly bounce MIDI parts to audio, that is something I have been wishing for in Cubase for as long as I can remember. I'm still undecided on things like audio warping and multi-take comping though, still need to dig into Sonar a bit more. It would be nice if there was a guide somewhere "Sonar 7 for Cubase Users".

Yes the freeze function is very well implemented. And I agree it would be great to have startup guides for SONAR users who are used to other working environments. Thanks for the suggestion.

[puffer]

I was going to post this whole long-winded spiel, but really, why?

I do love working in Sonar, and always come back to it with any project. The continual refinements to the program and my familiarity with it make it a cinch to navigate. If there are bugs or things that don't seem logical to me, I just figure out workarounds and get on with it - 9 out of 10 it's my own ignorance or ineptitude. It does way more than I need and I'm learning it constantly; it is as simple or complex as I require.

But, whatever floats your boat is good. What I don't understand why people get so het up over it. I think it's cool that people get so excited over creating in, say, Live, and hearing the cool shit they can pull off. I don't get all pissy and indignant because I think Sonar already has that or does it better.





PS - And you haven't, erm, DAW'd until you've tried the hardware inserts. Very cool.

[WillieJenkins]

A good debate around the facts is all I'm asking for, when people make stuff up and jump to false conclusions, yet present them as facts, everyone loses.

Instead of claiming an MCU doesn't work in Sonar, maybe ask? Or go to the MCU page on the Mackie website where it clearly states compatibility? Or search in the sonar forums?

Before implying VST support "doesn't work right" in Sonar, maybe stop to think that if that were the case maybe you'd have seen it posted at Cakewalk's forums, or KVR, or any site like that.

A simple "hey, I'm new to Sonar, how do you do this?" will get the same crew of us out to answer questions claws retracted.

[psylevation]

I just like to keep my options open. I own cubase 4, I just got the update. I was trying out Sonar 7 while I had the chance, If something seems to draw me in for a particular reason, I might switch. For now I know Cubase really well, to the point I just make music and don't think about how to do this or that as much anymore. I wouldn't give that up too easy, but I'm open to the possibility of it.

Thanx for everyones help here. From trying it I think it's just as capable as Cubase, it just works in a different way and vice versa.

Cheers,
~airyck~

[Jace-BeOS]

different system configurations restart software like Sonar at different speeds. My laptop is slower and has less memory (by a GB) than my studio machine, but my studio machine BEHAVES slower than my laptop. Go figure. My best tweaking, using BIOS settings guides, recommendations from software makers, hardware makers, etc... has improved it but it is nowhere near as snappy as my laptop. Granted, i have "drag-and-ignore" on my laptop while drag-and-drop works fine on the studio machine. Both Vista Business, different input device.

So yeah, if his setup is frustrating and he feels it is consuming time, that's probably how it is. give people the benefit of the doubt, a little.