Spectrasonics license transfer fee - unkindness behavior?

[nanotone]

What's about NI (Kontakt), Ableton, Propellerheads and XLN Audio?
All they deliver sample libraries with their products.
But they don't need the EULA to bond costumers to them.
The fact remains that such companies are more customer friendly than others.
Due to my experiences with these companies above I have no concerns to buy an other product from them in the future unlike Spectrasonics.

Cheers
Frank

[Watto]

One thing that just occurred to me is that IF/WHEN they come back out from the mad scientist "resident evil" underground, it will probably be very exciting to be able to upgrade to whatever concoction they stir up!

They must be having trouble with it or something

[hibidy]

If only there were a big ol' forum packed with knowledgeable, helpful people where we could ask existing customers about licensing issues before deciding whether or not buy... ah well, I do tend to dream. :-}

The problem is sometimes you get bogus info. (motu having a return policy (not true) or being told NI has a 50 usd per transfer (also not true) both of which were the "info" given to me a one time).

However, the websites almost always have the info you need. Case in point, spectrasonics DOES outline it's resale policy in the faq's.

alas (as I'm certain many are aware) there is a thread on here about who's who in the transfer department.....

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=91587

[hibidy]

One thing that just occurred to me is that IF/WHEN they come back out from the mad scientist "resident evil" underground, it will probably be very exciting to be able to upgrade to whatever concoction they stir up!

They must be having trouble with it or something

they did say it was going to be some time. for example, atmosphere and trilogy were going to be "re done"

At any rate, I'm hoping for something soon....but it's probably wishful thinking

[AKJ]

Can you resell Microsoft Windows?
Can you resell Apple's OS (whatever it's called)

There's little enough money in audio software as it is - I reckon $50 is fair enough, and I would rather have Image Line's free updates than be allowed to sell it.

yes, you can, at least here in Germany. Whatever the EULA tells if you got a physical product (ie a CD/DVD) you can sell it like any other product. nobody can stop you, it is 100% legal and even companies are doing it. however, the company might refuse updates/upgrades.

[DevonB]

It might be valid for some (I haven't installed every software product on the planet. ) but certainly not for Spectrasonics. That big white envelope with the HUGE sticker with the EULA on it (or was it a shortened version, it's been awhile since I've looked at mine?) is pretty obvious. Other software isn't quite that obvious, I agree, but plenty do say 'if you install this, you are bound to the terms and agree', but it's during installation. In fact, I haven't seen any one that doesn't say that that has a license agreement that I can think of?
Devon

Having not installed any Spectrasonics products, I can't say what their EULA looks like (and how gross does "Eula" sound, spoken as a word? "Dude! your Eula's showing!")...
I was making reference to the EULA contained INSIDE my Cakewalk MC4 purchase. A License I couldn't read until I'd paid my $40, downloaded the software, and set about installing it. ONLY THEN did I learn that I was going to be stuck with this software forever. And there's NO trial/demo version of this software, so I was going in doubly-blind (there's also precious little information on the web. I looked.)

And did you uninstall it, and ask for your money back at that time, or did you go ahead and install and use it instead? If you continued the install and used it, you agreed to the terms; I'm having a hard time stiring up sympathy if you read it and continued anyway. Not to mention, $40? Come on....

Devon

[aquar]

Hi,

I like to sell my Stylus RMX license because I would like to buy an Korg Electribe EMX for my life setup.

Spectrasonics has approved my license for transfer but they like to have $50,- tranfer fee. With this additional costs my Stylus is unmarketable.
A new version is about $ 280,-. In eBay I could get about $ 200,-. Minus $50,- for license transfer I would have only $150,- bucks.
In the past I sold a lot of software (I'm more the "hardware guy") and no other company (like Ableton, Propellerhads, Urs, NI) did this kind of robbery for changing a address in the database.

Further more in Germany reselling used software is legal it's not allowed to prevent this by charging additional costs.

Thanks Spectrasonics - this is a very nice kind of customer loyalty!

Cheers
Frank

Hellrider I feel your pain man. I had a very similar issue myself a while back that didnt resolve (not with Spectrasonics)
I was left with a peice of software that was also unmarketable.
In fact its still in its box gathering dust.

Its exactly this kind of treatment that pushes users over to the darkside (warez) 50 friggin bucks to push a few keys on a keyboard and update a database imo amounts to a rip off!
Good luck with the re-sale, sadly tho I think you are going to have to take a hit and sell it for what you can get.

[blatanville]

The way they manage to be a bigger organization and cover those expenses is to raise the prices. Would you rather have paid more for RMX up-front to make up for them not dinging you for a transfer fee after the fact?

Never purchased a Spectrasonics product...never said i did...

...your dislike of the "cost of doing business" explanation notwithstanding.

to clarify: it's the phrase "the cost of doing business" that I dislike. I think I was "supporting" the concept of a "cost of doing business" when I said that providing customer support, INCLUDING THE ADMINISTRATION OF LICENSE TRANSFERS, is a part of the "cost of doing business."

I'm sorry, but I have no sympathy for your position. Several of my instruments and hosts (All of my Cakewalk stuff, for example - Sonar, DimPro, P5, Rapture, etc) don't allow transfers. Others have transfer fees. In most cases, I knew this up-front and I'm ok with it - and the ones that added fees after the fact were just nominal.

Doug

Thank you for you honesty. It's refreshing to know up-front the people who don't care.

If only there were a big ol' forum packed with knowledgeable, helpful people where we could ask existing customers about licensing issues before deciding whether or not buy... ah well, I do tend to dream. :-}

Thanks, man, but your facetious tone was lost on them...

And did you uninstall it, and ask for your money back at that time, or did you go ahead and install and use it instead? If you continued the install and used it, you agreed to the terms; I'm having a hard time stiring up sympathy if you read it and continued anyway. Not to mention, $40? Come on....

Devon

Can I return a product I purchased from Cakewalk?

Yes you can return some products under the following conditions:

Cakewalk will only accept returns of unopened products that were ordered directly from us through our online store or Customer Service department.

If you purchased your product from another dealer or retailer, you must return the product to that location according to its business policies.

Important Note: We will not accept returns of opened or downloadable software products.

How do I return a product?

Do not open the software. Contact Customer Service by phone or email before shipping anything back to us.

We will issue you a return authorization number, and provide you with any other information required to process your return.

Software must be returned unopened. Shipping charges incurred to ship the original order to you will not be refunded.

You are responsible for shipping charges to return the product to us.

Important Note: We will not accept returns of opened or downloadable software products.
[italics mine.]

I hope that answers your question.

re: the $40 price tag. Yes, it's just a little. That's why I took the chance on this software which I couldn't demo before-hand, and which I could find little or no information on-line (do a search for "music creator 4 review" on google -- you'll get links to lots of sites quoting the cakewalk one-sheet about the product, but nothing substantial in the way of a user or magazine review.) Turns out it's a pretty good piece of software (better than the p5 demo I tried), and worth much more than $40.

HOWEVER, that's beside the point I'm trying to make: that free license transfers should simply be a fact of life for a software company. As I've said elsewhere, they're really serving two customers: the "departing" customer whom I think they'd like to impress with good service so that when they're ready to buy, they'll think of their other products, and the new customer who they'd like to impress, so they'll buy other products, too.

peace,
out,
bud

[cleverr1]

From the Spectrasonics faq:
"Any license transferred versions of this software do not have all the same upgrade privileges as standard new units purchased at an authorized Spectrasonics dealer."

So the 2nd buyer has paid $50 for the licence transfer and he's probably going to get blasted for a bigger upgrade fee when the time comes. Sprectrasonics are effectively charging $50 and also devaluing the licence by whatever additional amount they choose to charge the 2nd user for the upgrade when the time comes. IMO if Spectrasonics choose to charge extra to 2nd users upgrades this would be an abuse of the licence transfer process. They've already had the original price and $50, and the above implies that it doesn't end there. Surely that is just plain wrong from a moral perspective?

[MitchK1989]

I don't understand why software companies even allow second hand software lisencing... They were only paid to support one customer, and now they're expected to support a second one for free?

I guess I never really thought of software as something you would bother selling on, you'd just keep it, and continue to use it...

[DevonB]

HOWEVER, that's beside the point I'm trying to make: that free license transfers should simply be a fact of life for a software company. As I've said elsewhere, they're really serving two customers: the "departing" customer whom I think they'd like to impress with good service so that when they're ready to buy, they'll think of their other products, and the new customer who they'd like to impress, so they'll buy other products, too.

peace,
out,
bud

See, there's the issue - All of this for the business follows The Golden Rule - Ye who has the gold, makes the rules. If there is an administrative overhead and they feel they need to charge for a transfer, then they should charge. If you don't like it, then you don't buy.

I don't feel that someone has to run their business according to what I demand. I simply vote with my wallet. Spectrasonics, I have and would continue to buy, tranfer fee or not. I've lost significantly more money buying then reselling hardware; the $50 transfer fee feels very trivial in comparison for the service and the right to transfer something that normally is not transferrable. Heck, I'm even fine that I'm 'stuck' with Atmosphere and Trilogy that I bought several years ago if the rules were different that I couldn't transfer it. I accepted that when I bought it, and that WAS the rules when I bought it. The fact that I can transfer it is just a bonus to me.

Devon

[zircon]

They've already had the original price and $50, and the above implies that it doesn't end there. Surely that is just plain wrong from a moral perspective?

You're ignoring that two people have now owned the product. Spectrasonics has received, say, $300 + $50, but the first buyer may have written 10 hit songs using that purchase before selling it.

[blatanville]

All of this for the business follows The Golden Rule - Ye who has the gold, makes the rules.

"The Customer Is Always Right"

it's cool, I think: we've made our points, and we simply disagree.

and with reference to your sig:
"Those who can, make music. Those who can't, make excuses."

I prefer (with a broader scope):

"Those who can, do. Those who can't, pimp."

peace,
out,
bud

[blatanville]

You're ignoring that two people have now owned the product. Spectrasonics has received, say, $300 + $50, but the first buyer may have written 10 hit songs using that purchase before selling it.

just to play devil's advocate with your reasoning:

doesn't that mean that a sample license sold to a person that DIDN'T write even one hit song was unearned income for the sample company?

[zircon]

You're ignoring that two people have now owned the product. Spectrasonics has received, say, $300 + $50, but the first buyer may have written 10 hit songs using that purchase before selling it.

just to play devil's advocate with your reasoning:

doesn't that mean that a sample license sold to a person that DIDN'T write even one hit song was unearned income for the sample company?

No, that doesn't make sense. My reasoning is that multiple people are getting potentially unlimited use out of the same product while Spectra has only been paid only once (besides the minor transfer fees.)

The '10 hit songs' was an example of how someone could get a great deal of mileage out of it, sell it to someone else, and end up with a net gain of 10 hit songs AND most of the money back from their initial purchase. Now another person has the potential to get tons of use out of the some software, while Spectrasonics has really only been fully compensated once.