Amp for stomping chugga chugga

[chagzuki]

And bonescrape grind riffery.

Following on from the wankist thread it's time for me to learn a bit about amps.

As I explained before I used to compose a lot of guitar-based music and never gave a shit about what hardware I used, so long as things got made. For recording I'd use a friend's setup: BC Rich Warlock or something like that, i.e. stupid body shape, uncomfortable to sit with, EMG active pickups, Shredmaster (the original, not the horrendous second version) pedal with gain cranked right up & 40 Watt Marshall Valvestate amp on the clean channel.

Recently I've searched the net to learn more about Valvestates and it seems that they're almost universally thought to be rubbish other than within the heavier genres. Chuck Schooldinners used to use one I think, though I never liked either their (Death's) sound or music. Anyhow, it did seem that there was something about it, a metallic sort of quality that seemed appropriate for what we were doing, but given that we were only using the clean channel perhaps amp choice wouldn't have made much difference.

ATM I'm recording guitar stuff clean so that I'll have options later on. I'll be able to re-mic or whatever it's called, except it was never actually mic'ed in the first place.

So I'm wondering if I ought to try to hire a genuine tube amp from somewhere and see what sort of sound I can get. But I know sod all about amps other than the 5150 is used a lot in, er, heavy music.

Edit: I just read about Chuck Schuldiner's life and death on wikipedia and in the light of that my post looks disrespectful. True, I wasn't a fan of his music but he did his own thing & stuck by it. America is one f**ked up place. No medical insurance = death. I've read before that something like 40% of the african american and hispanic community have no medical insurance.

[Hanglow]

I think, although I might well be wrong, that solid state amps are well thought of for the really fast heavy stuff. I couldn't point you towards one though, the heaviest stuff I play is Maiden and Black Sabbath.

I remember reading that the 5150, along with the mesa dual rectifier are based on the Soldano SLO, which in turn is based on a JCM800 . So you could check out all those further.

[chagzuki]

Im my mind I think of Valvestates (based on extremely limited experience) as sounding sort of 'cold'. And of course people talk of 'tube warmth'. Though I've got no idea as to what valvestate technology really is, or how it aims to mimic the behaviour of valves.

[Hanglow]

The vlavestates have a valve pre amp and a solid state power amp. So the idea is you get the nice warmth of tubes from the pre and the responsiveness of the solid state power amp. However, like you say they didn't really work out particularly well, not that I've played them much.

If you have a tube power amp, then you can get further warm sounding distortion/compression when the power tubes are also overdriven. This is the essential bit to the "tube" sound .

I only have four amps, two of which are homemade battery powered ones. Of the other two, one is a heavily modified Valve Junior (all tube (apart from the rectifier but we won't get into that now)) that does sound nice and warm and is great for blues and up to heavy rock. The other is a carlsbro SS amp that is good for louder cleans and the heavy stuff.

[jonnyG]

The Valvestate power amps have feedback circuitry that supposedly allows more of the character of the speaker cab through. This is in contrast with typical "hifi" type tranny power amps that have a very high damping factor which forces the speaker cone to follow the signal more accurately. The net result is that the cab's resonant frequency is amplified, giving a more "bassy" sound. Hopefully. The inclusion of valves is to "warm" (I hate that expression!) the sound but applying distortion / overdrive after (say) a reverb pedal is a pretty moot point IMO.
Marshalls may be full of valves but the preamp distortion in all but the old stuff comes from diodes. That said I had a JMP-1 and it was very chuggy through my valve poweramp.
A lot of the chug factor of an amp (or distortion pedal) comes from the EQ before the gain sections. If you have an amp that sounds flabby playing damped chords the sound can be tightened with an EQ pedal rolling off a portion of the signal below 250 - 500 Hz.
I love valve amps but I've got lazy in my old age so most of the time I use my Line6 Pod XT and Line6 Gearbox plugins. If I feel like going lo-tech I'll use my Danelectro Fabtone pedal which despite being ridiculously cheap is the chuggiest pedal I've ever owned.

[Sidhu]

check out the randall's.. I've heard them doing some nice sounds..

Cheers!

[chagzuki]

Anyone have any experience with the Peavey 'Valveking' series?

[Waker]

They are better than the Ultra range which they sort of replaces. Still a bit noisy and some kind of lack of deffinition IMO... Not the greast Chunga amp....

...In the High End of ampdom there lies a treasure called Rivera. Really good amps (Imo), with a kind of fullness which I haven't heard on anything ells...

...Too bad I can't afford it

I have a L6 Vetta which CAN be as cool or as warm as you want (IMO) and it actually records well with a mic.

...oh, yeah... Valvestate is BTW

[horsma]

My choice's for getting that stomping chugga chugga sound would be: active EMG pickup to a combination of Mesa Boogie rectifier and peavey 5150/6150 amps going to 2x 4x12 cabinets with celestion V30 speakers.

[chagzuki]

Given that this is for recording and can be sold afterwards I could go all out and get something ludicrously expensive.

I've been reading about valves the last couple of days and I'm suprised at just how high-maintenance they are, & I guess that causes problems for the 2nd hand market.

[chagzuki]

Active EMGs I do indeed have (since about 1 month ago). I think I understand why views about them are so polarised, but they're good for what I'm doing right now.

[chagzuki]

They are better than the Ultra range which they sort of replaces. Still a bit noisy and some kind of lack of deffinition IMO... Not the greast Chunga amp....

How do you mean, noisy?

[horsma]

How about renting the gear you need.

[btsoloman]

How about those Krank amps?

I think As I Lay Dying or Killswitch Engage uses them. One of em.

[robogone]

How about those Krank amps?

I think As I Lay Dying or Killswitch Engage uses them. One of em.