notes and chords

[caddy007]

Do any one have a good way to recognize them??

[terragong]

http://zenph.com/technology.html
this is the killer ...super hi-tech...chords notes ..till now only piano but...

[nuffink]

http://zenph.com/technology.html
this is the killer ...super hi-tech...chords notes ..till now only piano but...

Ah yes. Yet another pitch to MIDI program that's going to change the world.
Don't hold your breath.



caddy007

Are you asking about recognising them by ear? If so you might want to google "ear training".

[jancivil]

Do any one have a good way to recognize them??

I'd strongly suggest learning about them in a theoretical framwork, eg., Music Theory 101, and then trial and error transcribing, copping licks off records, matching the two up in practice. a good theory course has ear training and sight-singing. A good teacher uses devices such as a mnemonic approach towards recognizing Intervals, which is your basis for both chords and lines.

[Nikolas]

Well... I'm classically trained so don't get me wrong really.

A few years back, I would never imagine that people would be dealing with music without knowing the notes... if yuo think about it, you're like some kind of writer, who doesn't know the letters, cause this is exactly that. You can speak, you can think, you can act, you can read your mind aloud and speak out poems, but you can't write them down... :-/

In all honesty, I could be biased (of course I am and I admit it), but there are 7 note names (ABCDEFG) and another 5 with sharps and flats (sharp:# goes up 1/2 a tone (or a semitone) and flat: b goes down 1/2 tone (or a semitone)).

Intervals are filled with semitones.
1 semitone is a semitone
2 semitones is a tone
etc...

if you count the notes from start to finish of an interval you get the "name" of the interval, but not the kind:

For example A-C is A1,B2,C3 is a third. C-G is C,D,E,F,G (5) a fifth and so on. But there are kinds of thirds and fifths as found in scales. there are... bigger (major) and smaller (minor) as well as perfect (hihi) augment and diminished.

Major chords are formed with 2 thirds (C-E-G) first a major third and then a minor. Minor chords are, again, formed with 2 thirds (A-C-E) first a minor and then the major.

Look at the piano/keyboard/something and see that between A and C you get 3 semitones while between C and E you get 4.

Honestly don't learn these things from this semi-stupid post, but this theory and chords, from someone who is above 18 years old should be learnable in less than a week. There are sites around that teach these stuff. I don't think you need any kind of teacher for these stuff. If you move on and learn and want more, etc, etc, by all means, then do seek out someone. It might benefit you.

But don't feel that you can't do music, just because you don't know these stuff. It could benefit you, but you can do it without, no doubt nowadays.

sorry for the long post.

EDIT: And then I saw "ear training". I'm afraid it's about practice with someone else... Or maybe, form all chords in your sequencer and move them around so you don't know what's coming next. Then hit play, write down and check for errors. Repeat...

But ear training is about practice

[triss]

i've been attempting to make my ears a bit cleverer recently too.

I've found the following bits really useful:
http://www.ravenspiral.com/ravenspiralguide.pdf - a basic and fun to read guide on chords, scales, keys and stuff aimed at the novie musician.

I've been doing this when i manage to forve myself: http://www.solfege.org/
it's an ear training tool, it'sa actually quite fun but whenever i sit at my PC ableton or renoise starts calling and i don't manage to use it as often as i should do.

http://www.trancetutorial.com/Melody%20 ... inners.htm - a really basic but very usefull tutorial for building melody.

[jancivil]

I don't think you need any kind of teacher for these stuff. If you move on and learn and want more, etc, etc, by all means, then do seek out someone. It might benefit you.

But don't feel that you can't do music, just because you don't know these stuff. It could benefit you, but you can do it without, no doubt nowadays.

well, you learn the names for it and train your ear, or you're someone like Paul McCartney who doesn't appear to need to do this, or you go ahead and make 'music' cluelessly, and hopelessly ill-informed.

a teacher will bust your chops in a way you are unlikely to do yourself, alternately will hold your hand and find ways to communicate the concepts in a way you are unlikely to find all on your own.

unless you're a total genius, in which case you would have figured all this out by now.

[Sascha Franck]

If you're talking about ear training, there's some decent programs out there. One I know is called "Aura" and I'm personally still using Emagics (very old) "Hearmaster" occasionally.

But of course, as has been said, nothing replaces a good teachers, and apparently classically trained ones are still more experienced than those jazz folks - at least that's my experience. Back when studying jazz/rock/pop at the local music university, I learned the most during the first 1.5 years when I had to absolve some classical theory and ear training classes.

To me, especially when it came to transcribing and/or learning songs, my theoretical knowledge helps me a lot, simply because I'm already familiar with the most common chord and note movements, so I can usually at least tell it instantly if a chord/scale is diatonic or somewhat "out of key" or even modulated.

[Hotbop]

I think about eartraining in a more holistic way.
When we devide music into small pieces (this interval, that interval..etc.)
we tend to overlook the whole meaning and feeling of the musical idea - for theoretical purposes like analizing its great- but not for our ears.
Musical perception doesnt begin with the detail (say an interval),
it begins with the whole picture...then we transcribe and analize it.
Sitting at the piano or guitar playing a major 7th and saing: thats a major 7th,
thats a major 7th, thats a major 7th ... doesnt make your ears better.
This attitude has nothing to do with music. It can help you recognize
this interval faster, but it will not help you to understand musical meanings
or improve your musical consciousness: a major triad can sound so different in many harmonic situations and is miles away from a pure piano identification.
So I think (and Im not alone) that the classical method of ear training is a waste of time and totally old-fashioned.
Transcribe the music you like, then analize it. You must have the whole picture first, then go into the detail. And always: first sing what you hear ,then try to play it on your instrument.
Its also interesting to be aware of the fact that away from your instrument,
your ear tends to be weaker than with your instrument. When you look at your
key- or fretboard you begin to visualize the sounds you hear.
Thats the key.

Cheers

[Nikolas]

well, you learn the names for it and train your ear, or you're someone like Paul McCartney who doesn't appear to need to do this, or you go ahead and make 'music' cluelessly, and hopelessly ill-informed.

Wait a minute here. What are we talking about? Notes and chords.

I will strongly stand by my comment, that you don't need a teacher to teach you notes and chords. I'm sorry, but especially if you are not looking to learn more advanced stuff and are basically looking for maj and min chords, then in reality it is 2-3 pages of a word doc.

No, you don't need a teacher for that.

If you add up more music theory, etc, then by all means the volume of information adds up. but still it is music theory so it can be studied alone.

If you want to move further to harmony, counterpoint, fugue, composition, whatever further really, then yup you do need someone by your side to guide you.

a teacher will bust your chops in a way you are unlikely to do yourself, alternately will hold your hand and find ways to communicate the concepts in a way you are unlikely to find all on your own.

unless you're a total genius, in which case you would have figured all this out by now.

Again, in theory, there's no need for all these things, or communication or whatever.

I support totally education and educating ones self, but when it's needed.

And don't think, for a sec, that I'm not trained, or studied or anything, or consider myself a genious, right. I'm ending my PhD in composition, so I'm pretty high educated. I would like nothing more than to see more people getting educated in music, tbh.

[jancivil]

well, you learn the names for it and train your ear, or you're someone like Paul McCartney who doesn't appear to need to do this, or you go ahead and make 'music' cluelessly, and hopelessly ill-informed.

Wait a minute here. What are we talking about? Notes and chords.

I will strongly stand by my comment, that you don't need a teacher to teach you notes and chords. I'm sorry, but especially if you are not looking to learn more advanced stuff and are basically looking for maj and min chords, then in reality it is 2-3 pages of a word doc.

No, you don't need a teacher for that.

If you add up more music theory, etc, then by all means the volume of information adds up. but still it is music theory so it can be studied alone.

If you want to move further to harmony, counterpoint, fugue, composition, whatever further really, then yup you do need someone by your side to guide you.

a teacher will bust your chops in a way you are unlikely to do yourself, alternately will hold your hand and find ways to communicate the concepts in a way you are unlikely to find all on your own.

unless you're a total genius, in which case you would have figured all this out by now.

Again, in theory, there's no need for all these things, or communication or whatever.

I support totally education and educating ones self, but when it's needed.

And don't think, for a sec, that I'm not trained, or studied or anything, or consider myself a genious, right. I'm ending my PhD in composition, so I'm pretty high educated. I would like nothing more than to see more people getting educated in music, tbh.

well, I suppose I really ought to have used 'if ONE is this or that quality' instead of 'you', as you took it personally, which phenomena I will own exactly half of.

I still take exception to the idea you present, you have split into an unnecessary dual endeavor, with 'there's no need for all these things, or communication or whatever'

what would be the point of doing that, especially as (I THINK) it can be a far less efficient path. (Concrete example: I learned the guitar initially by slowing records down to half-speed and picking out, say, all the guitar parts I could hear on Abbey Road. TOOK FOREVER, and I don't lack talent, so much. Had I a teacher, bringing his or her experience in copping licks, and some information that might've elucidated why this or that works the way it did, would have been invaluable.

of course I am guilty of assuming someone who asks how to achieve/learning about music is serious, more-or-less, about music, at some level, which, hey, may be very wrong here.

considering the context of your remarks

[Nikolas]

well, I suppose I really ought to have used 'if ONE is this or that quality' instead of 'you', as you took it personally, which phenomena I will own exactly half of.

And 1/2 for me then!

I still take exception to the idea you present, you have split into an unnecessary dual endeavor, with 'there's no need for all these things, or communication or whatever'

what would be the point of doing that, especially as (I THINK) it can be a far less efficient path. (Concrete example: I learned the guitar initially by slowing records down to half-speed and picking out, say, all the guitar parts I could hear on Abbey Road. TOOK FOREVER, and I don't lack talent, so much. Had I a teacher, bringing his or her experience in copping licks, and some information that might've elucidated why this or that works the way it did, would have been invaluable.

of course I am guilty of assuming someone who asks how to achieve/learning about music is serious, more-or-less, about music, at some level, which, hey, may be very wrong here.

considering the context of your remarks

And yet again, I will repeat that I am refering to "notes and chords", as the subject of the thread is, nor guitar or piano, nor more advanced theory, nor anything else. Your example about guitar is perfectly valid and most people (can't be 100%) would benefit from a teacher to learn an instrument, but this is about notes and chords, and in extension simple music theory.

I am FOR education, not AGAINST it. That's what I mean, and do not wish to be misunderstood to that.

small edit: You also need to define "serious" about music really. :-/

[jancivil]

well, asking about recognizing notes and chords indicates a desire to train one's ear, so in my mind that was the topic.

since we're both being argumentative for the sake of it:

Do any one have a good way to recognize them??

Are you asking about recognising them by ear? If so you might want to google "ear training".

EDIT: And then I saw "ear training". I'm afraid it's about practice with someone else... Or maybe, form all chords in your sequencer and move them around so you don't know what's coming next. Then hit play, write down and check for errors. Repeat...

But ear training is about practice

I said serious on some level; I tend to 'mirror' myself, as does anyone, I think, and I imagine, correctly or not, that one wishes to become some form of musician when they ask such a thing.

just because it's hard for me to image another motive.

oh, that's right, it reportedly helps in getting laid.

my bad.

[Nikolas]

I do not wish to spend too much time here and I certainly don't see the reason in continuing for much more. Just want to reply since you replied, and do not feel like leaving you feeling ignored or anything. Honestly.

You initially quoted a part of my post which was reffering to learning how to recognise in paper (thus theory) notes and chords (which I explained semi-stupitdly in my post as well). After that I saw that it was prolly about ear training and mentioned the quote that you just quoted. Simple as that.

And then I saw "ear training". I'm afraid it's about practice with someone else... Or maybe, form all chords in your sequencer and move them around so you don't know what's coming next. Then hit play, write down and check for errors. Repeat...

But ear training is about practice

pracitce with someone else... : a teacher or someone who knows music and how to make ear training. But at more begining levels it could be done by yourself, perhaps.

I hope that this clears things up a bit.

[jancivil]

I do not wish to spend too much time here and I certainly don't see the reason in continuing for much more. Just want to reply since you replied, and do not feel like leaving you feeling ignored or anything. Honestly.

You initially quoted a part of my post which was reffering to learning how to recognise in paper (thus theory) notes and chords (which I explained semi-stupitdly in my post as well). After that I saw that it was prolly about ear training and mentioned the quote that you just quoted. Simple as that.

And then I saw "ear training". I'm afraid it's about practice with someone else... Or maybe, form all chords in your sequencer and move them around so you don't know what's coming next. Then hit play, write down and check for errors. Repeat...

But ear training is about practice

pracitce with someone else... : a teacher or someone who knows music and how to make ear training. But at more begining levels it could be done by yourself, perhaps.

I hope that this clears things up a bit.

no, you've been mostly clear, i just disagree with part of it. I happen to have a busted right arm, and I was experiencing some challenges with quoting you and addressing points one by one, and it appears part of one remark went missing.

which I bothered to do, because for some reason you thought I was directing some comment to you;
'if one is a genius, one doesn't need any help with recognizing chords and lines {which is totally the subject of ear training}.
if one isn't, one needs all the help she can get. better off working with someone.'

musician tends to be better off working with someone anyway, otherwise it's a hall of mirrors, and I should know.

take care, you. so sensitive.

thanks