Here Comes True Evil

[boimb]

and one can expect high quality DAC's too, more quality than i suspect most people have in their souncards

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't this thing a mini ITX board in a box?

If so, the DAC's will be whatever shite is incorporated into the motherboard.

i do not think so, but probably will heavily depend on the manufacturer. for example i DO know the quality of the DAC's in my Nord Modular are very high quality. so i have been told by many people... i Think they are great and sound very crist etc and different then what comes out of my m-audio delta 1010. they had gold blabla , maybe it was jsut commercial talk, but i think you can expect high quality from a wellknown and respected manufacturer

Fascinating

well you do your own research and letme know he buddy. you find the specifications then of e.g. he nord modular G2 DAC's and tell me, cause you seem to know this subject better then i do, what you think about the used DAC's.

this should be fascinating for all of ous too then

[psycox]

for me the soundengine is great. i am a former user of waldorf mw2 and waldorf q.
but can you tell me one positive thing beside the price about a va-wavetable-synthesizer with only 13 knobs?
when i use hardware my hand and eyes needs many knobs to connect the soundstructure with my brain.
i hope in future we will see an waldorf vsti with that power or a waldorf TI . that woud be give a nice integration in the todays computer based recording enviroment.

[nuffink]

and one can expect high quality DAC's too, more quality than i suspect most people have in their souncards

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't this thing a mini ITX board in a box?

If so, the DAC's will be whatever shite is incorporated into the motherboard.

i do not think so, but probably will heavily depend on the manufacturer. for example i DO know the quality of the DAC's in my Nord Modular are very high quality. so i have been told by many people... i Think they are great and sound very crist etc and different then what comes out of my m-audio delta 1010. they had gold blabla , maybe it was jsut commercial talk, but i think you can expect high quality from a wellknown and respected manufacturer

Fascinating

well you do your own research and letme know he buddy. you find the specifications then of e.g. he nord modular G2 DAC's and tell me, cause you seem to know this subject better then i do, what you think about the used DAC's.

this should be fascinating for all of ous too then

Research? But isn't it ok to post speculation about something you've never heard?

I only ask because...

yes it's software in a box.

but it's pretty darn good software in that box!!

i bet your dual core will have a hard time even to produce 2-4 voices of these algo's

i remember in the day loading the Nord modular G2 demo editor which was limited to Mono... and my machine hit RED immediately.

and one can expect high quality DAC's too, more quality than i suspect most people have in their souncards

and it's more fun to play with this dedicated instrument you know inside out.

it's definately a creativity booster.
something that stands out from all those (pretty) flatscreen plug-ins...

it has the price of an overpriced plug-in and it's guaranteed itwil sound mighty! and original!

it is software put in a box so you can adore it . this software deserves it

and hopefully it will open a door to many young artists who now have a chance to taste from the magick of a real hardware synth

... it's quite clear you've never been near a blofeld and yet you're confidently predicting how good it'll be.

What's the point of research?

[boimb]

you see, i don't really care if it's software or hardware. i use both. and i'm not naive as some might think. i let my ears judge and of cousre the fealing i get from an instrument.

i just am able to attach more easily with a machine someimes that is ergonomic shit like a radical technologies spectralis thenwith a good sounding plug-in...

eg the spectralis sounds VERY unic and there is no doubt the sound is SUPERB!

it's workflow is shit though and loading samples in it is somethingyou think carefully about (althou it had more then 80 mb memory)... it sounds extremly good (not saying software isn't capable too or somethin like that) and it has this unique workflow which results in creativity and music i'd never GET with softsynths because the WORK different...

on another note, last couple of years the hardware released was pure sheit, and deserved to get wiped from the market. but i do apreciate and NEED some good build and original sounding hardware synths to be able to be creative and enjoy myself in the proces.

if it's just software in a box, like most releases from a couple of years ago were, you are absolutly right and i am totally on your side of things.

ireally love the xhip software somehow this unfinished peace of software is able to connect with people... maybe cause it just sounds superb?

[Plieuw]

yes, a waldorf TI style vst is coming for this synth. a beta tester from the dutch synth forum told me so!!

release of a vst(ti style)should follow will after some sales.

[whyterabbyt]

uhu, true but this is because the PC flatscreen shines when it comes to complicated soundsynthesis (which i like). you just NEED a computer screen to getto a level of comlexity as that! very true.

which, in fact, was what I was referring to. amazing!

i was referring the 'live' aspect of the modular G2 after you build your complex synthsizer in the editor. The G2 fronpanel allows you thento very elegantly get acces to A LOT of parameters very easily. but of course!!!! the synthbuilding itself (cause that is what you do with the G2 editor: building synths) is done on a computerscreen. i think there is a big diference.

bit disingenuous when the topic was originally editing the sounds from the Blofeld's LCD screen and knobs for 'deep editing' dontcha think?

for example once i made the synth and programmed the sequencer etc, i make my patches and parameter tweaks with the G2 front panel and not with the mouse. at thatstage the G2 rocks any computerscreen.

You know, someone should make a device which hooks up to a computer and lets you control patches and parameters like you do with a hardware synth. You know, with lots of knobs and switches and sliders and stuff. I think they might have a market for those things, maybe.

i hope you understand the difference i'm pointing at here

I understand the distinction you're trying to make. But I dont agree that its anything other than handwaving.

and let's not forget that this G2 (expanded in my case) is an ectremely powerful synthesis machine... wich WOULD eat a lot of CPU from your comp.

so? why do people seem to be so afraid that their CPU power might actually be getting used?

with the G2 i have beatiful fully tweackable soundscapes, rhythms sequenced stuff, noodles... going on, and my CPU hits 0.5% still fully capable of now layering with weteve you want badass softsynth, + a buch of high CPU demending efx processors etc (reverbs especially in my case) and all of this live

you try that

even if it hit 90% of my dual-core to achieve that, why do you think it would make some kind of actual difference to the result?

oh, and you wont get much quality reverb out of the G2; the G2's reverbs are expensive in memory and horsepower. Definitely not 'a bunch' of them.

[boimb]

and one can expect high quality DAC's too, more quality than i suspect most people have in their souncards

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't this thing a mini ITX board in a box?

If so, the DAC's will be whatever shite is incorporated into the motherboard.

i do not think so, but probably will heavily depend on the manufacturer. for example i DO know the quality of the DAC's in my Nord Modular are very high quality. so i have been told by many people... i Think they are great and sound very crist etc and different then what comes out of my m-audio delta 1010. they had gold blabla , maybe it was jsut commercial talk, but i think you can expect high quality from a wellknown and respected manufacturer

Fascinating

well you do your own research and letme know he buddy. you find the specifications then of e.g. he nord modular G2 DAC's and tell me, cause you seem to know this subject better then i do, what you think about the used DAC's.

this should be fascinating for all of ous too then

Research? But isn't it ok to post speculation about something you've never heard?

I only ask because...

yes it's software in a box.

but it's pretty darn good software in that box!!

i bet your dual core will have a hard time even to produce 2-4 voices of these algo's

i remember in the day loading the Nord modular G2 demo editor which was limited to Mono... and my machine hit RED immediately.

and one can expect high quality DAC's too, more quality than i suspect most people have in their souncards

and it's more fun to play with this dedicated instrument you know inside out.

it's definately a creativity booster.
something that stands out from all those (pretty) flatscreen plug-ins...

it has the price of an overpriced plug-in and it's guaranteed itwil sound mighty! and original!

it is software put in a box so you can adore it . this software deserves it

and hopefully it will open a door to many young artists who now have a chance to taste from the magick of a real hardware synth

... it's quite clear you've never been near a blofeld and yet you're confidently predicting how good it'll be.

What's the point of research?

uhu, but i just based my opinion on the sounddemo's . and the specs on the site of course. there is no mention of what DSP chips or DAC's used... so you'll need to do some RESEARCH about that. i'm not saying these demo's can't be made with software synth. i'm not dumb. i'm sayning the demo's sound TOP CLASS CRISP CLEAR COOL FULL. as should be excpected from a quality product.

it's always possible but i doubt i wil be disaponted by this device

[nuffink]

uhu, but i just based my opinion on the sounddemo's . and the specs on the site of course. there is no mention of what DSP chips or DAC's used... so you'll need to do some RESEARCH about that. i'm not saying these demo's can't be made with software synth. i'm not dumb. i'm sayning the demo's sound TOP CLASS CRISP CLEAR COOL FULL. as should be excpected from a quality product.

it's always possible but i doubt i wil be disaponted by this device

Cool stuff.

As it happens I've been doing a bit of research on D/A converters.
Since in every hardware thread at least one person claims that digital hardware's superiority is down to the DACs I've collected the reference board of every DAC from Crystal, Texas Instruments, Burr Brown, Analog Devices, NPC and AKM.

nuffco will shortly be producing the DACAlizer, a convolution DAC emulator based upon impulses lovingly extracted from these boards.



nuffco. "If you can hear it, it's real"

[boimb]

uhu, true but this is because the PC flatscreen shines when it comes to complicated soundsynthesis (which i like). you just NEED a computer screen to getto a level of comlexity as that! very true.

which, in fact, was what I was referring to. amazing!

uhu cause i agree

i was referring the 'live' aspect of the modular G2 after you build your complex synthsizer in the editor. The G2 fronpanel allows you thento very elegantly get acces to A LOT of parameters very easily. but of course!!!! the synthbuilding itself (cause that is what you do with the G2 editor: building synths) is done on a computerscreen. i think there is a big diference.

bit disingenuous when the topic was originally editing the sounds from the Blofeld's LCD screen and knobs for 'deep editing' dontcha think?

deep editing goes both verywell for the G2 as for the blofeld. the editor is there to build synths. that's not the patch creation itself. it is not editing. you can edit the pach with the editor, but i prefer the G2 frontpanel. i agree fully the most elegant way to do this building is on large screens

for example once i made the synth and programmed the sequencer etc, i make my patches and parameter tweaks with the G2 front panel and not with the mouse. at thatstage the G2 rocks any computerscreen.

You know, someone should make a device which hooks up to a computer and lets you control patches and parameters like you do with a hardware synth. You know, with lots of knobs and switches and sliders and stuff. I think they might have a market for those things, maybe.

i have those. it's not dedicated, i do use it regulary and happy they excist. it makes life better, but mostof the time it is NOT the most elegant and ergonomic way of working... it's good for dj sets and modulating some filter or so... but please let' not try to switch filtertype ina plug-in witha bcr2000

yup reverbs suckin G2

[boimb]

uhu, but i just based my opinion on the sounddemo's . and the specs on the site of course. there is no mention of what DSP chips or DAC's used... so you'll need to do some RESEARCH about that. i'm not saying these demo's can't be made with software synth. i'm not dumb. i'm sayning the demo's sound TOP CLASS CRISP CLEAR COOL FULL. as should be excpected from a quality product.

it's always possible but i doubt i wil be disaponted by this device

Cool stuff.

As it happens I've been doing a bit of research on D/A converters.
Since in every hardware thread at least one person claims that digital hardware's superiority is down to the DACs I've collected the reference board of every DAC from Crystal, Texas Instruments, Burr Brown, Analog Devices, NPC and AKM.

nuffco will shortly be producing the DACAlizer, a convolution DAC emulator based upon impulses lovingly extracted from these boards.



nuffco. "If you can hear it, it's real"

so you keep me informed then. and as you may have noticed i don't claim hardware DAC's to be better. i mean my 1010 DAC's are hardware too lol.

i think my G2's are better. although i don't complain about my delta1010's... maybe some of the highs is bit softer... but hey, maybe i'm not a serious musician (i'm not in fact). ijust like making those fat D&B basses... hrdly worthy to be called a musician too . still if it sounds fat it is fat. i must say the main thing i'm concerned with is that everything is unwanted noise free. somehing some hardware products have a tendency to be NOT. i hate that actually. maybe cheap DAC's? you're probably right there in mostof the cases justfind the info on the G2's cause i'm curious! and the blofeld for that matter...

[whyterabbyt]

deep editing goes both verywell for the G2 as for the blofeld. the editor is there to build synths. that's not the patch creation itself. it is not editing. you can edit the pach with the editor, but i prefer the G2 frontpanel. i agree fully the most elegant way to do this building is on large screens

thats a completely arbitrary distinction between 'patch' and 'synth' that the G2 itself doesnt make. in case you'd forgotten, the G2 editor refers to what you're calling 'synths' as 'patches'.
unless you can point out a mechanism for saving the state of the parameters of a 'synth' separately from its structure as per anything else using the term 'patch'.

i have those. it's not dedicated, i do use it regulary and happy they excist. it makes life better, but mostof the time it is NOT the most elegant and ergonomic way of working... it's good for dj sets and modulating some filter or so... but please let' not try to switch filtertype ina plug-in witha bcr2000

Dont use a bcr2000 then. I use a ReMote which is good for more than 'dj sets and modulating some filters'. Oh, and strangely lets me switch filter types on plugins like impOSCar et.c.

i DO use the CPU fully ... but most of the time it's just not enough and i loose flexibility cause i have to bounce to audio. not a problem but with hardware i save CPU and averything stays tweakable

I think that's more of a user issue than a technology one, then.

[poonna]

I don't understand why some people seem to hate hardware VA synths that much. As long as there are people who love the sound of, say, Gladiator, Surge, Zebra 2, or whatever softsynths out there, there will be people who love the sound of Blofeld as well, and that can only be found on their hardware synths (even though it's actually software). So what's wrong with buying that and using that instead of software synths?

And also some people are more comfortable with using hardware and their interface, however limited it might seem to you. It's their comfort zone and their opinion, so I wonder what's wrong with that?

I don't have my own preference as of now. I only have software synths right now, but I can understand why some people prefer hardware, even if it's just software in a box. So, why so much hatred?

I'm sorry if I come out as harsh. I just don't understand why when someone post their appreciation of a hardware VA synth, they often get attacked for that as if their choice of preferring it is stupid or nonsensical.

[nuffink]

I don't understand why some people seem to hate hardware VA synths that much. As long as there are people who love the sound of, say, Gladiator, Surge, Zebra 2, or whatever softsynths out there, there will be people who love the sound of Blofeld as well, and that can only be found on their hardware synths (even though it's actually software). So what's wrong with buying that and using that instead of software synths?

And also some people are more comfortable with using hardware and their interface, however limited it might seem to you. It's their comfort zone and their opinion, so I wonder what's wrong with that?

I don't have my own preference as of now. I only have software synths right now, but I can understand why some people prefer hardware, even if it's just software in a box. So, why so much hatred?

I'm sorry if I come out as harsh. I just don't understand why when someone post their appreciation of a hardware VA synth, they often get attacked for that as if their choice of preferring it is stupid or nonsensical.

You're missing the point.

People don't get attacked for "posting their appreciation of a hardware VA synths". They get challenged when they make blanket assertions about the superiority of hardware VA's. If they then (as usually happens) go on to uneducated guesses as to why that superiority may be, then they're going to get a bit of piss taken out of them, because after all this is a software site.

I'm sorry that you don't understand why people here are going to defend software. May I suggest you let your cursor hover over the KVR logo for a few seconds.

[kilon]

Again why all this fight?

And answering to a previous question , yes I prefer a small screen instead of a mouse (and a limited midi controler) and huge screen anyday.

I said I happen to use to own a MicroKorg and the multipage interface of the 4 knobs did not bother me at all. Not that I would complaining if I had more knobs. On the other hand the limited polyphony did. I do not buy Blofeld because is better than FM8 , but because I prefer working on hardware. Hardware is more immediate more , more music orientated. It just feels so natural working on hardware.

[whyterabbyt]

I don't understand why some people seem to hate hardware VA synths that much.

who in this thread said that?

And also some people are more comfortable with using hardware and their interface, however limited it might seem to you. It's their comfort zone and their opinion, so I wonder what's wrong with that?

nothing, as an opinion. but since it came down to 'you cant do X in software' or 'Y is better than software', then why is that the 'comfort zone' of hardware users is what you're suggesting is under attack?

So, why so much hatred?

where?

I just don't understand why when someone post their appreciation of a hardware VA synth, they often get attacked for that as if their choice of preferring it is stupid or nonsensical.

they generally don't. any claim that its mere existence in hardware form automatically makes it superior, however, might.