KVR Audio

disturb · Post by **disturb** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 12:43 pm

I've basically given up on software samplers, so i'm currenlty looking for a hardware one, i definitely need something modern (no storing of patches on floppies and the likes), possibly with a good computer integration for samples/patch management. I'd use it for everything from drums, stabs, chops to 'playable' patches, so polyphony and midi timing are a concern.

I've been asking this around, and it seems that the later emu samplers (e4 ultra series) are the most highly regarded, but this came from mostly hardcore hardware users, so i was thinking maybe i'd get a different perspective around here...

I've used nothing but software till now, and what i'm worried about is possibly a convoluted workflow from working with those tiny lcd screens, and the whole hardware paradigm. I'd easiely trade the ease of use of softsamplers for a solid/reliable platform that's highly tweakable and good sounding ; i'm just not sure how much more work this represents, and i guess it varies from a brand (or even model) to another.

Insight ?

aallvor · Post by **aallvor** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 12:53 pm

Most hardware samplers are/were pretty deep things, and takes a bit of learning. If you go for any of the late Akais, the size of the screen isn't really an issue though, as they all come with software editors.

Lagrange · Post by **Lagrange** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 1:34 pm

Speaking of screens I own an older Roland SP700 with the adapter on the back that allows you to put it on a TV! Pretty cool looking blocky GUI

...

L

disturb · Post by **disturb** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 1:44 pm

the z8 is one of the contenders indeed (eventhough the most expensive one).
I was actually looking into : Roland S-750/770, Akai Z4/8, Emu Ultras or Yamaha A5000.

DJDirty · Post by **DJDirty** » Mon Dec 17, 2007 9:56 pm

Get Yourself an akai s5000 or s6000 with usb.. And an external hard drive and cd rom.

Richard Lichten · Post by **Richard Lichten** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 10:34 am

All good samplers; the Yamahas are my personal favourite - very good fx and filters, and unsusal but very fast and good UI, and cheap. You may consider basic sound as means for choice also; the Akasi sound most natural and work great on drums, EMU colours in a warm natural way - typical american sound, Roland is between both and adds special HIFI-ness, and Yamaha sound in a good way unnatural and electronic. EMUS and Roland aren't a joy to exchange with a PC samplewise, better are newer Yamahas or the AKAis with USB.

Cheers, Richard

amiga909 · Post by **amiga909** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 12:16 pm

Richard Lichten wrote:All good samplers; the Yamahas are my personal favourite - very good fx and filters, and unsusal but very fast and good UI, and cheap.

interesting info, Richard, tkx.
albeit I do not know much about hw samplers, own a A3000 (not very far from A5000 generally I guess) and a Roland SP808 (has no sampler synthesis features). A3000 sampler engine is pretty nice, I still rarely use it for D+B basses.

fx: A3000/5000 have loads of effects, imho reverb/modulation(chorus/flanger/etc.) are ok. there also are some funny granular effect (pretty innovative for that time), yamaha sucks at distortions/lofi/ringmod that's a constant matter. Roland is way better here. also got a ART quadraFX, still use that one. you'll still be a zillion times better off with plugins compared to sampler effects - of course unless you get a bargain (paid 100$ for my A3000, would still make a good fx machine).
filters+sampler routines: kewl
sample mapping: better in A5000, still a nightmare compared to plugins.
loading times: I hope u are aware of the fact you will hardly ever want to load/save/timestretch/etc. >10mb wav's. might be wrong but samplers file processing speeds might not have exceed a 500mhz pc. A3000 is terrible here, to load up about 20MB into the internal RAM expect to wait 1min; SP808 can do it much faster, but it reads directly from ZipDisk . main cause I gave up working with hw samplers.

disturb · Post by **disturb** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 12:52 pm

thanks for the answers guys, that's helpful.
The Yamaha does look interesting, looking at the S.O.S. review, it seems the a5000 improves on the cons you listed amiga909, and true they are rather cheap.
What about this editing software though, couldn't find much infos about it, i'm not sure how useful it actually is...?

I'm not too worried about load times and such though, since big libraries will stay on the computer, and besides that, my usual sampling duties consist mostly of micro samples, hits, stabs, drums sounds and that kinda stuff, so rather memory in-intensive.

This is killing me though, i've always had a hard time picking plugins, synths and whatnot, but this is gonna be such a staple part of my setup, i think i'm putting too much thought into it ; i guess i should focus more on pragmatic specs rather than sound and workflow, as i won't be able to find out about the latter two until i start actually working on it...

The whole scsi paradigm looks confusing as hell to me from what i've read ; I wonder about fitting a flashcard/smartmedia reader thingy instead of a cd rom, has anybody done that with their sampler ? Never used one of these, but it would seem like the next best thing to usb for pc<>sampler communication ?

jones-y · Post by **jones-y** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 4:39 pm

Maybe you should be looking at samplers designed for one-shot type samples. I'd recommend any of the Roland ones (MC-808/909, SP-XXX) or the Akais (MPC-500 or MPC-1000). There are, of course, others. The MPC-1000 allows an internal HDD (awesome - I have one), and I think all the Rolands, as well as the MPC-500 use CF cards up to 2GB)

These won't allow for multisampled piano patches (well the MPC-1000 will, with the upcoming JJ OS2) but they will beat the pants off of traditional samplers in terms of the one-shot/phrase/bleep-n-bloop sample workflow. Trust me. As a HW sampler guy, let me give you the advice I wish someone had given me 10 years (and 12 samplers) ago: Buy workflow first, features second. You can thank me later.

Oh, and if you get the MPC-1000, the JJ OS is a must, the factory OS has fatal save/load problems (as does the MPC-500, for which there is no fix right now) that this guy JJ has fixed in his 3rd party OS. He also added a bunch of functionality, and enhanced the workflow. As a matter of fact, I'd avoid the 500 until Akai sorts out the save bug.

jones-y · Post by **jones-y** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 4:41 pm

disturb wrote: The whole scsi paradigm looks confusing as hell to me from what i've read ; I wonder about fitting a flashcard/smartmedia reader thingy instead of a cd rom, has anybody done that with their sampler ? Never used one of these, but it would seem like the next best thing to usb for pc<>sampler communication ?

You don't wanna deal with SCSI. And if you can find a SCSI card reader (expensive and rare on the S/H market) then you're a lucky dude. And even if you can find a card reader, there is no guarantee that many of these old samplers will format the card so that it can be accessed by the computer.

kuniklo · Post by **kuniklo** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 5:36 pm

disturb wrote: I'm not too worried about load times and such though, since big libraries will stay on the computer, and besides that, my usual sampling duties consist mostly of micro samples, hits, stabs, drums sounds and that kinda stuff, so rather memory in-intensive.

In this case I'd agree with jones-y and suggest you get an MPC1000. Great interface and workflow, integrates with a computer trivially over USB. It's also a great, no-frills midi sequencer you can get a synth or two and work entirely away from the computer if you need a break from the screen. With the JJ os for another $30 it's just that much better. You can pick up a used one in excellent shape for around $600 or so. You can upgrade the memory to 128mb with cheap commodity ram. This may not sound like much compared to the gigabytes you get in computer, but for percussion samples this is more than enough.

I've tried just about every beatmaking device available, Machinedrum, Electribes, any sequencer/plugin combo you can think of, and the drum patterns I come up with on the MPC are my favorite.

jones-y · Post by **jones-y** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 5:57 pm

I'd definitely recommend that he get a new MPC-1000. Akai recently released a pad fix, that's included on new units, but costs $180 separately. The old pad design was flawed, and they fail after a few months usage.

kuniklo · Post by **kuniklo** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 5:58 pm

jones-y wrote:I'd definitely recommend that he get a new MPC-1000. Akai recently released a pad fix, that's included on new units, but costs $180 separately. The old pad design was flawed, and they fail after a few months usage.

That's a good point. My pads are working fine after much more than a few months usage but you might as well avoid the problem. It's an extra $400 to buy a new one but if you think of this as something you'll get a lot of use out of over many years it's a good investment.

jones-y · Post by **jones-y** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 7:43 pm

Actually GC is running a sale on them right now for $799.

disturb · Post by **disturb** » Tue Dec 18, 2007 10:21 pm

jones-y wrote:Maybe you should be looking at samplers designed for one-shot type samples. I'd recommend any of the Roland ones (MC-808/909, SP-XXX) or the Akais (MPC-500 or MPC-1000). There are, of course, others. The MPC-1000 allows an internal HDD (awesome - I have one), and I think all the Rolands, as well as the MPC-500 use CF cards up to 2GB)

These won't allow for multisampled piano patches (well the MPC-1000 will, with the upcoming JJ OS2) but they will beat the pants off of traditional samplers in terms of the one-shot/phrase/bleep-n-bloop sample workflow. Trust me. As a HW sampler guy, let me give you the advice I wish someone had given me 10 years (and 12 samplers) ago: Buy workflow first, features second. You can thank me later.

Oh, and if you get the MPC-1000, the JJ OS is a must, the factory OS has fatal save/load problems (as does the MPC-500, for which there is no fix right now) that this guy JJ has fixed in his 3rd party OS. He also added a bunch of functionality, and enhanced the workflow. As a matter of fact, I'd avoid the 500 until Akai sorts out the save bug.

i hate the idea of having to consider yet another option, but i'm gonna have a look at that jj OS manual...
I've had an mpd24 for a few months now, and i like it, but the lack of integration with the daw (eventhough i use mainly Live these days) is frustrating, so you got me interested.

Which particular OS version is the one you're talking about ? The site i found is a bit confusing.

Also, in terms of sampling capabilities where would you guys say it stands, compared to the dedicated boxes already mentionned ?

Sampler recommendations ?