Do I need a rack for live shows?

[LoopisLucas]

Hey guys and gals of KVR,
I played my first show last night at a small club (capacity of about 80 people) and I'm looking for some suggestions on ways to maximize the bass-y punch of the soft synths and boost vocals in a club PA. Everyone at the show last night was saying that the vocals couldn't be heard over the un-mic'ed drums, but the PA was certainly powerful enough to match their volume.

Right now, I'm coming out of my MBox 2 with two 1/4" cables (one 1/4" is the click track which goes into a headphone monitoring mixer, the other 1/4" is my synths/sequenced accompaniment that goes into the board) and I have a feeling the lack of bass push might lie there. However, the sound man was completely inept (he was asking me how to use his board), so maybe the MBox2 could suffice and it was the house's system?

As far as the vocals, I was using my SM57 microphone (which I think is omni-directional and not ideal for on-stage vocals) plugged into the house's board. The signal kept distorting as its levels were pushed as high as they could go (to compete with the drums) and it created feedback when it wasn't being used. A horrible horrible experience.

My questions:
1) Does this just sound like a bad house system experience or does my system need improvement?
2) Do many electronic musicians mix their vocals, samples, and synthesizers themselves via a rack before they go into the club's board?
3) What would be a basic rack setup for an electronic music club performance?

I'm very new to the game so any DJs/Keyboardists/vocalists out there with this kind of experience would be very greatly appreciated.

[amarule]

1. SM-57's are cardiod dynamics. Not the best choice for a vocal mic IMHO, but certainly not the worst.

2. If people are complaining they can't hear the vocals, especially in a small venue like this, where nothing should be in the PA other than vocals, everyone onstage needs to seriously turn down and stay there. While drums are often the big culprit in these situations, it is everyones responsibility onstage to work together so the vocals are on top of the mix, regardless of what your PA is.

Louder isn't better if no one is enjoying the show.

Get yourself a decent, modest onstage reinforcement system, and use that, NOT THE PA, in these venues. Use the inhouse system to reinforce the vocals.

If someone is a room this small can't hear the instruments clearly from the onstage amps, then you need to adjust your onstage balance or reposition amps. An 80 person capacity room is tiny, and in small rooms it's easy to blow people out the back wall if you're not careful.

Audiences are not going to return to see you if they don't enjoy themselves. A bit of dynamic understanding from all the artists onstage will achieve this.

[LoopisLucas]

Thanks for re-enforcing the need for a better stage mic.

This photo shows the current setup:
http://www.nomadicsun.com/nomadicsun.jpg

There is just me on vocals, guitar, and keys and a drummer.

So would you suggest something like a Marshall stack or something for the bass/soft synth sounds and a separate amp for the vocals? I was wanting to do some vocoding, so it may need to all come through the same amp.
Thanks!

[egelmett]

Q1: Yes - it sounds like the soundperson was a large contributer to the problem. If the person is new, talk to them and see what they thought of the mix. Chances are, and I guess this applies only if your willing to work with that person and the situation presents itself, they thought it sucked too and has a good idea why it sucked. I can't comment on if the system was capable but the soundsystem is only as good as the soundperson.

Q2: When I was playing out, I mixed my whole setup which included three synths and a Roland VS880 as the "sequencer". It included backup vocals. All of this went into a Mackie 1202vlz where I sent one side to the house with synths, the other side to the house with prerecorded backup vocals, and then an auxillary send to the drummer as a click.

I didn't leave much to the soundperson since I knew better what I wanted the audience to hear. For my live vocals, that was straight to the soundboard.

I also had a keyboard amp with lines from the music and vocal side off of the DI. I didn't use the house monitoring for my equipment. The next time I play live though, I'm getting in-ear monitors - no more heavy, deafening amp!

Lastly, I ran all of it from a UPS. Don't leave your equipment to the mercy of the house power!

Q3: If anything, an audio interface with more outputs would be useful. Unfortunately, if you're using Protools LE with your Mbox, I don't think you'd be able to use it with an M-Audio interface without buying PT M-Powered. But, in my situation, two sends to the house, and a third to the drummer which along with the click, included the recorded and live synths.

I don't the Mbox caused your bass problems though. The soundperson is the most likely suspect. And, an SM57 is a uni-directional mic (cardioid) which is good in a live situation. However, an SM58 - same capsule, enhanced pop filter, is used more for vocals.

Judging by the photo, it looks like an SM58, which is a fine and popular stage dynamic vocal mic.

Good luck!

[LoopisLucas]

Wow, great advice, thanks.

What's a UPS? I would Google it, but I'm thinking it would come back with courier results.

[thelizard]

a UPS is a device that protects your equipment from power surges and provides back-up power... I think it stands for "Universal Power Supply," but I might be wrong on that one. Anyways, I've got one on my set-up. It saved my work during a few sudden storms.

[amarule]

UPS=uninterulptable power supply. APC is the leader.
http://www.apc.com/products/index.cfm?I ... &tsk=s113x

Definitely a must have if you are running a computer driven setup. For just keys, guitar and drums however IMHO it's a bit overkill, but certainly cannot hurt. Expect to spend several hundred dollars to get one to run everything, and if you don't get one that runs everything it's kind of pointless.

In rooms that size, given your setup, a small single 12" combo for guitar or something like a pod, and a decent pair of powered speakers are all you need, JBL Eons, Mackie 450's etc. A small mixer to mix it all down, and as suggested an aux driving IEM's. All this fits in the trunk of a modest car. Position the speakers so you can also hear them and not be guessing about what it sounds like in the room. In a room that size, you don't need to be driving the system that hard, and feedback won't be an issue. Crutial is that your drummer keep the volume DOWN!!!

IMHO it would be very worth looking into electronic drums if your budget affords. While not the same as an acoustic kit, newer e-drums such as the Roladn V-drums sound great, and a simple turn of the knob brings the volume down. Get the drummer some IEM's and let him blast his ears out if he wants without driving the audience out.

I'm guessing the house system was some preinstalled "plug into here" rig with no actual engineer, although I may be wrong, but if so that eliminates that factor.


Best of luck.