off key notes?

[offensive-teenager]

Lol this thread went to something that once happened in my university. A confused student asked a prossor asked for an opinion for a thing that was puzzling his mind, from a professor. The professor started to to explain that thing to confused student, but an another professor heard the explanation and said it was wrong. Then the professors started arguing and fighting over that question and leaving the student without answer and even more confused?

Well but not actually, I feel i understand a little more than before this thread.

[DJMenace]

I can hear the A# causing some tension in the mix. Its ok to have passing notes just remember to resolve yourself

[jancivil]

{and who cares anymore, it's a dead practice and has been for a long long time}

eh.... that is one of the most ridiculous statements i have ever seen

escuse pliz;

18th century practice period done went and died (21st century now I think), unless of course you are the very one to revive the age by sheer dint of your talent

good luck!

[jancivil]

I'm honestly not trying to make you look like an idiot. I'm just saying that if a piece doesn't stick to one key (barring PERHAPS the occasional chromatic note from a tonicization) then it shouldn't be called "Diatonic".

fine. not clear from your language. you do appear to make argumentative points to prove you know more than I do, and it's clear ya do not.

even your wiki citation agrees with me... there's some debate, according to the article, over whether or not a piece that uses the #7 or #6 in the minor is technically "diatonic", but there doesn't seem to be any debate that if a piece uses a b2 (not present in any major or minor no matter how you cut it) it's chromatic (as opposed to diatonic)...? or did I miss something in there?

using a flat 2 changes the key? it does not, unless there has been a convincing cadence in the new key.
criminy.

As to the initial post re: Neapolitans, please excuse that. That was before I saw the score, I was just counting off potential explanations for a bii scale degree... Neapolitan being one of them (tritone substitution being the other).

I know, you just included it to show off your advanced knowledge

[iain_morland]

This has been interesting so far -- please let's keep it civil.

[jancivil]

I tried to clarify some purdy muddy waters, mom

got characterized repeatedly as not knowing my stuff for my efforts, and been cited very inaccurately in a strictly from argumentative tone, add to that the confuse and obfuscate maneuvers... and now I have said the most ridiculous thing someone has ever seen?
[18th c practice period is OVER peoples!]

and never ever said anything uncivil, at any point.
my possibly accurate characterization of the motivation strictly to look smart isn't the most delicate move I could've made, but when you won't let it alone, and: HEY, 'I'm not trying to make you look like an idiot' went there first, and I wouldn't use IDIOT to anyone in an argument, even by innuendo

on top of that, I believe I DID manage to clarify some wholly inaccurate points, and set right some context which was lacking

which unfortunately probably did not help the original poster, who, hey, might've become bored with all this. right, it is tedious.

doesn't mean I'm not going to hold my own here.

[C00kie]

Probably the A# should be called a Bb.

I've listened to the clip, and there's nothing dissonant in the C B Bb (or A#) A sequence.

[deastman]

I can easily pick out the A#'s in question. They did immediately stand out, but not in a bad way at all. It was more like "Oh, he's doing something interesting there, intentionally diverging from the tried and true trance formula. Good for him!"

[soulata]

hmm,

an easy explanation would be:

- the piece is basically in a minor but since there's no strict chord or a bass note present, the passing Bb functions as a dominant to A (tritone substitution, Bb in place of E7).

- a lot of eastern music alternates between 9th and b9 on a minor chord

- since a melody has no underlying bass there's no b9 actually. It's true b9 is only allowed on seventh chords and some other special cases but - no bass - no interval - as it's the interval that's dissonant.

k

[Km7]

Yes. And generally, b9 tension is "allowed" only on dominant seventh chords, for they already possess instability.

[soulata]

Yes. And generally, b9 tension is "allowed" only on dominant seventh chords...

uhm, that's what I meant

k

[mleghorn]

In the context of the short clip provided, I think the a# just doesn't fit, and doesn't seem to have a clear purpose. However, I think that if the music is developed further, the idea of a# can be given more purpose and integrated with the whole composition. I think that the arpeggiated sound doesn't lend itself well to non diatonic tones, as they suggest melody, and chromatic melody at that, while arpeggios are harmonic, and more static.

My 2.1 cents.

Mike