KVR Audio

telestich · Post by **telestich** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 8:20 pm

Hi,

I'm in the process of buying a budget mic pre, and I've pretty much narrowed the search down to Studioprojects VTB1 and Presonus Bluetube DP. Now, two channels isn't a must, but since I can afford the Bluetube, I think it could come in handy in the future. In addition, proper VU meters not only look cool, but give a slightly better chance to look at levels while recording

. At the moment, it seems I'd mostly be recording vocals with a dynamic mic (and some occasional sounds from singing bowls to small bells, but I guess that's another issue, then).

So, are there any pros or especially cons to consider? I've heard that the Bluetube DP's a bit on the noisy side, but haven't really been able to verify this. I'm not specifically looking for the oh-so-warm tube sound or anything, so there's even the chance of me making most of my recordings with the tube dial turned to zero. This of course depends on the sound it gives, but I recall hearing some rather skeptical comments considering this particular amp/tube...

Thanks for your help,
tel

amarule · Post by **amarule** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 10:30 pm

Forget about metering on the pre, watch the level going into your converters via your DAW, targeting the DAW's 0dbu reference as your nominal level.

IMHO neither are worth the money, as they are both plate voltage starved tube wannabe preamps, with very high noise levels,thanks to 1 tube for marketing to call it a "tube pre" and not enough voltage for it to properly operate.

IMHO you're money is better spend on a used Mackie type mixer with direct outs.

kaverka · Post by **kaverka** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 10:53 pm

telestich wrote:Hi,

I'm in the process of buying a budget mic pre, and I've pretty much narrowed the search down to Studioprojects VTB1 and Presonus Bluetube DP. Now, two channels isn't a must, but since I can afford the Bluetube, I think it could come in handy in the future. In addition, proper VU meters not only look cool, but give a slightly better chance to look at levels while recording . At the moment, it seems I'd mostly be recording vocals with a dynamic mic (and some occasional sounds from singing bowls to small bells, but I guess that's another issue, then).

So, are there any pros or especially cons to consider? I've heard that the Bluetube DP's a bit on the noisy side, but haven't really been able to verify this. I'm not specifically looking for the oh-so-warm tube sound or anything, so there's even the chance of me making most of my recordings with the tube dial turned to zero. This of course depends on the sound it gives, but I recall hearing some rather skeptical comments considering this particular amp/tube...

Thanks for your help,
tel

I've had both in my studio over the years, and the VTB1 is my preference, if I only had those two options. The VTB1 is a surprisingly good sounding preamp for the money. I do NOT like the Bluetube DP. Not only is it noisier than the VTB1 in my recollection, but I did not like the coloration. But I'm also just not a huge fan of the cheaper Presonus pres. Of course preamps are very personal things, so anything anyone says is opinion only. If you only have $100-$150 for a preamp, you can't go wrong with the VTB1. In that price range, I'd also suggest the M-Audio DMP3 and the Rane MS 1b. So the best (in my opinion) in that price range are the DMP3, MS1b and VTB1. All of those will sound better than stock Mackie VLZ/VLZ Pro preamps, in my opinion. They are not as good as Onyx preamps, but definitely have more personality than "normal" Mackie pres. Again, opinion. Others may disagree.

CapnLockheed · Post by **CapnLockheed** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 6:49 am

+1 Spot on accurate assesment on all counts...of course that's just another
opinion!

All these low budget,(i.e. low plate voltage),tube pre's are pretty much nothing more than marketing hype IMHO.

Cheers....CL

bduffy · Post by **bduffy** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 7:21 am

I own a VTB-1 (got it with the B1 mic in a bundle, nice mic) and quite like it. Even with the tube setting at "0", I noticed an improvement in my guitar signal; seemed to take some of the digital edge off the POD. I know it's not perfect, but it's really great for the cost.

amarule · Post by **amarule** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 2:45 pm

That loss of "digital edge" was most likely due to the lowering of fidelity of the incoming signal by the cheap, plate voltage starved tube circuitry. These units certainly have a use, such as taming the sound of a pod (which I personally cannot stand) but for general use IMHO they are inferior products.

dickiefunk · Post by **dickiefunk** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 3:11 pm

+1 DMP3

I have used the Studio Projects VTB1, Focusrite Trakmaster Pro, SPL Goldmike 9844 and the pres in Behringer mixers.

The DMP3 was the cleanest and most transparent! This preamp is a real bargain for the quality you get!

The Rane MS-1b is also another great preamp in this price range. It is only one channel and doesn't have a DI input. These were used on a Steely Dan album (don't know which).

There has been a few shootouts between the DMP3, FMR RNP (£499!!) on a few forums.The Rane MS-1b and the DMP3 and Rane were often picked above the FMR. The DMP3 and Rane came out on par with each other.
Also, the VTB1 uses the same opamp chip as found in the cheap Behringer mixers and the DMP3 uses the same as the Rane and some higher end pres.

dickiefunk · Post by **dickiefunk** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 3:17 pm

Forgot to mention I also have a Tampa by M-Audio. This is a superb preamp. It is more flexible than the DMP3 because you can change the colour of the tone by how hard you drive it and using the impedance selector. It also has a very nice compressor! This is a step up from the DMP3 but you can only get them second hand. I noticed there is one for auction on ebay :-

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/M-Audio-TAMPA-pre ... dZViewItem

telestich · Post by **telestich** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 4:13 pm

Thanks for all the very knowledgeable replies so far! It seems that Bluetube won't be my way to go, but the mentioned DMP3, for example, seems very nice (and Tampa too). Also, amarule's suggestion of just a mixer with direct outs is most likely a good one too.

amarule · Post by **amarule** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 9:06 pm

dickiefunk wrote:+1 DMP3

I have used the Studio Projects VTB1, Focusrite Trakmaster Pro, SPL Goldmike 9844 and the pres in Behringer mixers.

The DMP3 was the cleanest and most transparent! This preamp is a real bargain for the quality you get!

No offense, but you really need to hear what a clean transparent preamp sounds like, and you will then know that the DMP3 is anything but transparent, and extremely colored.

bduffy · Post by **bduffy** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 9:31 pm

amarule wrote:
dickiefunk wrote:+1 DMP3

I have used the Studio Projects VTB1, Focusrite Trakmaster Pro, SPL Goldmike 9844 and the pres in Behringer mixers.

The DMP3 was the cleanest and most transparent! This preamp is a real bargain for the quality you get!
No offense, but you really need to hear what a clean transparent preamp sounds like, and you will then know that the DMP3 is anything but transparent, and extremely colored.

Chill out, man: he's saying the DMP was the cleanest of that bunch, not the cleanest pre-amp EVER. Not all of us are sitting in front of $2,000 preamps.

dickiefunk · Post by **dickiefunk** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 10:00 pm

bduffy wrote:
amarule wrote:
dickiefunk wrote:+1 DMP3

I have used the Studio Projects VTB1, Focusrite Trakmaster Pro, SPL Goldmike 9844 and the pres in Behringer mixers.

The DMP3 was the cleanest and most transparent! This preamp is a real bargain for the quality you get!
No offense, but you really need to hear what a clean transparent preamp sounds like, and you will then know that the DMP3 is anything but transparent, and extremely colored.
Chill out, man: he's saying the DMP was the cleanest of that bunch, not the cleanest pre-amp EVER. Not all of us are sitting in front $2,000 preamps.

Exactly! Thought that was obvious!?

Amarule. What would you class as clean and transparent!?

amarule · Post by **amarule** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 4:37 am

For short money, the Grace 101 and FMR RNP. Both are exceptionally transparent in their price range, and considered to be in a league far above their price range.

dickiefunk · Post by **dickiefunk** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 9:53 am

Yeah the Grace 101 is definitely a nice pre. I haven't personally tried the FMR RNP but know a few people who have owned both the FMR and DMP3 at the same time and said they were extremely close.
As I mentioned, there has been a few blind shootouts between the DMP3 and FMR RNP and the DMP3 came out favorably. I'm not saying that the DMP3 is better than the FMR but I personally can't justify spending 5 times as much when SO many people say they are VERY close. I would rather save the extra money and put it towards Acoustic Treatment or Mics which will have a bigger difference.

amarule · Post by **amarule** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 3:13 pm

Better is a subjective opinion. The Grace and FMR do not color the audio, unlike the afore mentions plate voltage starved "tube" pres, that color greatly. Not that color is a bad thing, but if you want transparancy, these are not the pres to be thinking about.

Presonus Bluetube DP, opinions?