Can't Get My MIC to Work

[Ataylor]

I've got an AKG Perception 200 going through a Motu 828MKII going into Cubase SX3. I've tried reading the manual and messing about with the settings to no avail.

When I switch the Motu from MIC to Guitar 1, it seems to work at a really low level - and that's after I turn the "trim" all the way up.

Anyone running a similar setup and know what the problem may be? I've had the Motu for a while now but never had a MIC before today, so really not sure what the problem is.

Anyway, any is greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
-A

[Hink]

do you have the phantom power on for it?

[Ataylor]

do you have the phantom power on for it?

I didn't know what phantom power was 'till about a second ago - and still not sure if I got it right.

I'm not sure if you've got an 828 or not, but here's how it's laid out:

TRIM
|
|
MIC/GUITAR 1 (Then a little switch to the right that says 48v on one side (for Guitar) and nothing on the right side (for the MIC)

I just read something on Google about a "48+", is that what the "48v" on the Motu is? I enable phantom power by switching over to guitar mode? It does work that way, I just thought that the switch should be under "MIC" is I"m using a....mic?

[Hink]

enable the button that says 48v...your mic is a condenser that requires a power source. Very few mics use batteries, instead they rely on power from the card (hence phantom power). I suspect you'll be all set, though I dont have the 828 but phantom power is om most decent cards with mic inputs.

The guitar switch is to change the resistance or "impedance" of the input. Most often inputs are low-z or low impedance, a typical passive electric guitar is hi-z or high impedance. For a mic leave it set to lo-z (not guitar).

[Hink]

btw you'll have to use a mic cable with xlr connectors on both ends for Phantom to work I believe...chances are you are already using the righ cable, but in the off chance you aren't I thought it worth mentioning.

[Ataylor]

I misunderstood the switch: one side was for MIC/GUITAR and the other side was for the 48v - so I just switched it back to 48v and it's working - not too loud, but it's working.

As for the cable, yea', I actually did have the wrong one yesterday and picked up an XLR to XLR a few hours ago.

Now need to find out what to do with all this damned background noise...wow!!! My internet PC is a bit noisy and the MIC's picking up the noise from half way across the room. I should probably build a little voice-room in my 2x3 closet.

Anyway, at least it's working, so thanks for the effort and the help, man, it's appreciated.

[deastman]

I guess you already got the answer, but I do have an 828mkII. The front inputs are for either "mic" or "guitar", but that basically just means they are intended for any signal ranging from mic level to instrument level depending on your trim setting, and also that the jacks are combo XLR / 1/4" jacks.

The switch below the Trim knob is the phantom power on/off switch. On is with the switch pulled to the right. You don't want to have that enabled for ANYTHING other than a phantom-powered mic, so a good practice is to always switch it off as soon as you are done recording with the mic.

As far as background noise goes, I just use a long mic cable and long headphone cable, and do my recording from the next room, with the door closed. A closet with some blankets is also an easy way to go.

[Ataylor]

Yea', at first I'd thought that by switching over to the right side, I was enabling the MIC - and by switching over to the left it was for Guitar - then came to realize that both the Guitar and MIC were on the left side (as you said) and the 48v (Phantom) was on the right.

Quick question, tho', really curious to know if keeping the mic out (while my card is turned off - or even while the mic is unplugged) and next to my semi-loud PC (or any noise, really) going to damage it in any way long-term or short - or even lessen its life span? Any idea? How about if my card is on but not switched over to '48v'?

Thanks!

[Ataylor]

Another quick question (sorry)...lol. The sound is only comin' out of the left or right speaker, and I've created a stereo bus. You or anyone else know why that is?

Thanks a lot!

[deastman]

Not sure about the stereo problem. I use Sonar myself. But if you're feeding a mono mic signal into one of those inputs and recording into a stereo channel, I would think that you'd have the mic signal on one side and nothing on the other. If you're recording a mono source, it should be a mono channel. Just a guess...

I'm not totally sure I follow the other question, but it shouldn't really hurt to leave the mic cable plugged in with the power off.

I still get the feeling that you might not fully understand the phantom power concept. It isn't a case of switching between guitar/mic on the left, and +48v on the right. It is strictly a +48v on/off switch. Nothing to do with mic/guitar. Here's a rundown in case you aren't clear on it yet:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phantom_power

[Pouckypluysch]

Another quick question (sorry)...lol. The sound is only comin' out of the left or right speaker, and I've created a stereo bus. You or anyone else know why that is?

Thanks a lot!

You should have created a mono channel instead of a stereo channel.

A stereo channel is meant for two channels; left and right. Your mic signal however, is a single channel (mono) signal. The mic input will be routed to the left channel, and the right channel receives no input.

When you route your mic signal to a mono channel, the signal will be panned in the middle. From there it is sent to your master bus, and the mono channel will be audible left and right.

[amarule]

One note of caution, NEVER PLUG OR UNPLUG A CONDENSER MIC WHEN PHANTOM POWER IS ON!!!!

Always allow several seconds after turning off the phantom power before disconnecting the mic.

Phantom power is DC voltage +48V that powers the mic to put it simply. If you disconnect or connect the mic when it is on a couple things happen.

If you speakers are tuned up, you will get a very loud pop, which is the DC being connected, which is essentially a huge square wave signal, that, if loud enough (and it doesn't have to be that loud) can damage your speakers permanently.

In addition, there is a small arc of electricity when the connections are mated that will eventually do damage and reduce conductivity of the connections.

SO, to review to set up:
0: ALL MONITORING VOLUMES DOWN ALL THE WAY!!!!
1. Plug in Mic.
2. Turn on Phantom power.

To break down:
0: ALL MONITORING VOLUMES DOWN ALL THE WAY!!!!!!
1. Turn off phantom power
2. wait 30 seconds
3. unplug mic.

Also, condenser mics are very fragile, don't rough handle, drop or otherwise treat the mic poorly.

The mic will not be damaged by being in the vicinity of your computer or other sound source when not in use, however I highly suggest when it it is not in use it is put away in a safe place, back in it's original box. DUst, dirt, moisture and an accidental knock to the floor are all things condenser mics do not care for.

The mic is also cardioid, which means it is mostly picking up only on one side, make sure you are using the correct side toward the source. You can eliminate low end rumble (and proximity effect which you can google) by engaging the high pass filter on the mic. Unless you're recording bass drum or other very low frequency sources, leave it engaged all the time.

Condenser mics are extremely sensitive, and will pick up whatever you can hear.

Finally, make sure you are setting your input gain correctly. DO NOT try to get the signal as hot as possible without clipping. Target your average input signal to about -15dbfs, you'll end up peaking around -8dbfs. This will yeild the best audio and keep the noise level to a minimum.

[C00kie]

Quick question, tho', really curious to know if keeping the mic out (while my card is turned off - or even while the mic is unplugged) and next to my semi-loud PC (or any noise, really) going to damage it in any way long-term or short - or even lessen its life span? Any idea? How about if my card is on but not switched over to '48v'?

As a mic, it's used to be in the proximity of sound. It doesn't care for how long it will have to listen to it. However keep it shielded from sounds outside it's maximum specced SPL. Usually condenser mics don't like sounds going over 100 dB. That's a person screaming really loud. To get it damaged you usually need more sound force. It's possible to rip the diaphragm or damage the alignment. Just the fan noise of a PC is harmless.

Moist, dust and physical accidents are greater hazards. Best is to put it away if you're not using it anymore for the day. You might use it tomorrow again but if that's uncertain then it may sit there exposed for a month also!


And a small addition to this:

SO, to review to set up:
1. Plug in Mic.
2. Turn on Phantom power.

Here step 0 is left out: put preamp's trim pot (or gain) to zero. Step 3: put trim back to position. Turning on phantom power gives a click. You don't want to feed that DC pulse through the rest of your equipment, so make sure it's rejected at the first opportunity you have.

Same goes for breaking down: trim or gain to zero first, then power off, wait a bit, unplug, and keep that trim set to zero because then you know it's set right when you plug it in again.

[amarule]

While turning the preamps gains down isn't necessary. Cookie did remind me of the step ) that I did forget, and my post has been amended. That would be to turn all monitoring levels down all the way.

[Ataylor]

Here's a rundown in case you aren't clear on it yet:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phantom_power

Thanks, D.!

You should have created a mono channel instead of a stereo channel.

A stereo channel is meant for two channels; left and right. Your mic signal however, is a single channel (mono) signal. The mic input will be routed to the left channel, and the right channel receives no input.

When you route your mic signal to a mono channel, the signal will be panned in the middle. From there it is sent to your master bus, and the mono channel will be audible left and right.

Got it, thanks!

One note of caution...

Very good information. I've copied and pasted what you wrote to a notepad file and saved it on my PC. Thanks for the effort and for the tips, man.

As a mic, it's used to be in the proximity of sound. It doesn't care for how long it will have to listen to it. However keep it shielded from sounds outside it's maximum specced SPL. Usually condenser mics don't like sounds going over 100 dB. That's a person screaming really loud. To get it damaged you usually need more sound force. It's possible to rip the diaphragm or damage the alignment. Just the fan noise of a PC is harmless.

Perfect, just what I wanted to know. Thanks!

Moist, dust and physical accidents are greater hazards. Best is to put it away if you're not using it anymore for the day. You might use it tomorrow again but if that's uncertain then it may sit there exposed for a month also!

Another morsel of wisdom. I've done just that: removed it and put it to the side. I don't use it that often to keep it laying around.

And a small addition to this:

SO, to review to set up:
1. Plug in Mic.
2. Turn on Phantom power.

Here step 0 is left out: put preamp's trim pot (or gain) to zero. Step 3: put trim back to position. Turning on phantom power gives a click. You don't want to feed that DC pulse through the rest of your equipment, so make sure it's rejected at the first opportunity you have.

Same goes for breaking down: trim or gain to zero first, then power off, wait a bit, unplug, and keep that trim set to zero because then you know it's set right when you plug it in again.

Cool, thanks!

Appreciate the help very much. Thanks all.