KVR Audio

fandango · Post by **fandango** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 3:21 pm

I wish I understood enough about DSP and Audio Engineering to know what is being explained by Paul Nasca here: http://zynaddsubfx.sourceforge.net/doc/ ... Dsynth.htm

All I do know right now is that ZynAddSubFx is capable of the most incredible lush pad sounds that I've heard out of anything in my arsenal (Sytrus, Toxic III, Morphine, Hydra, Wusikstation, etc.) and even a number of synths I've demo'd out of my pricerange.

It just has a kind of silky richness in it's PadSynth component that I just can't seem to emulate in a satisfying way in any other synth. Is there any other synth out there that emulates the same "PadSynth" process?

I would just use ZynAddSubFx of course, but alas the windows VST version seems to crash in both SONAR, FLStudio and Project5 after around 5 minutes of tweaking on 2 seperate machines. Another problem is that I have to reset the Presets location to get the instruments to appear every time I start up the synth. Also, unless I'm mistaken, none of the parameters are available to the host.

I'm hesistant to post an audio example of the synth because I suck harder than an amazonian leech, but here goes: padsynth example

Any suggestions for synths that are capable of similar spectral nirvana welcomed.

aMUSEd · Post by **aMUSEd** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 3:41 pm

Karma FX Synth Modular has a Padsynth module:

http://www.karmafx.net/

fandango · Post by **fandango** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 9:38 pm

aMUSEd wrote:Karma FX Synth Modular has a Padsynth module:

http://www.karmafx.net/

Thanks aMUSEd, I've been playing around with the demo for this, is it the Generator->Pad area I should be concentrating on?

brok landers · Post by **brok landers** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 10:09 pm

yeah ... i don't remember how often i was praying to paul nasca to make a proper vsti of zyneaddsubfx ... i wouldn't even mind it beeing unflexible in terms of automation if it wouldn't be crashing all the time ...

Rock Hardbuns · Post by **Rock Hardbuns** » Sun Feb 03, 2008 10:25 pm

PAD synthesis is actually fairly easy to do. I think the reason it is not more popular with developers is that it's an off line process. I.e a PAD instrument is essentially a sample player with a sample generator built in.

It feels like two different jobs to a programmer. There is no reason someone couldn't write a stand alone PAD wave generator that you could use with SFZ for example. ( I did it once when made waveforms for VEX. I even wrote a python implementation: http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... hlight=pad It's very rudimentary though. )

JonasNorberg · Post by **JonasNorberg** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 7:27 am

The reason the padsynth algo sounds lush and natural is the constant cancellation and reinforcment of harmonics, it's done by basically "rendering" a big (100+) number of detuned oscillators into a sample. You can get similar results in any synth that supports big "unison"-counts. Try helix!

where you can have 64 osc per voice.

Jonas78 · Post by **Jonas78** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 7:54 am

Can someone pass me the vst(i) version? The download link supplied on the sourceforge site doesn't seem to have it! Or I'm tweakin' out of control and need to stop the druggies.

living sounds · Post by **living sounds** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 8:08 am

ZynaddsubFX is the only plugin synth that actually comes close in quality to hardware. I wish for a proper vsti-Version as well.

living sounds · Post by **living sounds** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 8:11 am

BTW, I upped this example a long time ago:

www://scherer.de/Download/TestPad.mp3

Not too far from a Microwave, ey?

MaliceX · Post by **MaliceX** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 8:18 am

living sounds wrote:BTW, I upped this example a long time ago:

www://scherer.de/Download/TestPad.mp3

Not too far from a Microwave, ey?

PRESET. PLEASE!

Ontopic. After a few more random uses of the currently-available Windows VSTi of ZynAddSubFX, the unintuitive GUI isn't too bad, however what REALLY gets on my nerves is that its banks/presets pathnames don't save according to the INI file, wheras the standalone doesn't exhibit this problem. (The only problem with that being, how does one turn on MIDI-IN on THAT?)

In short, synth-wise it's already great. There's just more than enough bugs needed to be able to tolerate these issues in the long run.

Oh yeah did I mention this has the best DX Piano tone I've heard in software? (Provided a ton of reverb and a bit of chorus/phaser is on)

As for KarmaFX's "PAD" module, while it sounds nice, it kills my CPU.

fandango · Post by **fandango** » Mon Feb 04, 2008 9:34 am

Rock Hardbuns wrote:PAD synthesis is actually fairly easy to do. I think the reason it is not more popular with developers is that it's an off line process. I.e a PAD instrument is essentially a sample player with a sample generator built in.

Aha! That makes sense. I always wondered why you had to click "Apply" whenever you made changes to the bandwidth or oscillator settings. It was basically writing out a wavetable with the heavily unisoned oscillator. KarmaFX does something similar. I guess the Bell Curve (gaussian) diagram is showing how the unison is configured to be less extreme the further out in order to keep the sound more natural.

It feels like two different jobs to a programmer. There is no reason someone couldn't write a stand alone PAD wave generator that you could use with SFZ for example. ( I did it once when made waveforms for VEX. I even wrote a python implementation: http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... hlight=pad It's very rudimentary though. )

I seem to recall Paul Nasca saying there was an option to export the wavetable being added to ZynAddSubFX. It's probably already in there, I must have a look!

MaliceX: Yeah, sadly the KarmaFX one tends to max out my CPU too. Also, even with 16-note polyphony I'm getting cut-offs with long-release ADSR envelopes.

jonas the plugexpert: mahtazz has kindly provided a windows VST here: http://personales.ya.com/mahtazz/ZynAdd ... _Beta5.exe though the Windows version seems to have stability issues. (I'm wondering if it's because ZynAddSubFx uses a lot of 3rd-party linux dependencies and the windows versions of these aren't as robust)

JonasNorberg: Helix is a wonderful synth. I'd originally been playing around with just supersaws.

However, I guess it could do some really rich pads as well with its unison. I'll look into it, thanks!

shanecgriffo · Post by **shanecgriffo** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 3:09 am

its a great sounding synth, but yes very buggy in ableton live

P.T. · Post by **P.T.** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 8:03 am

It sounds good but is too much trouble to use.

bmanic · Post by **bmanic** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 1:07 pm

JonasNorberg wrote:The reason the padsynth algo sounds lush and natural is the constant cancellation and reinforcment of harmonics, it's done by basically "rendering" a big (100+) number of detuned oscillators into a sample. You can get similar results in any synth that supports big "unison"-counts. Try helix! where you can have 64 osc per voice.

Any of you heard what the man said? Try Helix. It can do some insane pads.

Cheers!
bManic

djsubject · Post by **djsubject** » Tue Feb 05, 2008 1:39 pm

bmanic wrote:
JonasNorberg wrote:The reason the padsynth algo sounds lush and natural is the constant cancellation and reinforcment of harmonics, it's done by basically "rendering" a big (100+) number of detuned oscillators into a sample. You can get similar results in any synth that supports big "unison"-counts. Try helix! where you can have 64 osc per voice.
Any of you heard what the man said? Try Helix. It can do some insane pads.

Cheers!
bManic

+1!!!

but i also wish for a stable zynadsubfx vsti win

helix is the only synth that made me thing "its flipping hardware" except for zynaddsubfx & Zebra2

the fact that 2 of thease 3 are free is great

just need a vst guru to beat up the win zynaddsubfx

Subz

ZynAddSubFx (PadSynth) - why does nothing come close? :(