kik masking base w/o sidechain or automation

[TOTAL]

I have recently heard a trancey bassline masked by kikdrum without midi timing or sidechain compression.

Both channels went through a normal wideband limiter.

Without the kik the bassline was a full 16-note no-gap piece, without velocity alterations.

But when the 4x4 kik entered it totally masked the bass corresponding bass notes. The effect was that of swinging, very desirable.

Unfortunately, I haven't had the opportunity to ask the author how he achieved that.

The most obvious thought is that the two instruments shared the same spectrum. But I have even tried using a spectrum copied-paster (eqium) to trim the spectrum of bass to match that of kik and regadless of the poor sounding of the bass, the whole effect was not achieved.

Any ideas how to do the trick?

So far people who have answered this question suggested

eq automating, envelopes does the trick, but was not the case here.


More:
sharing the same waveform (proposed by Howard)
and
"Try HouseEffect for the amp env trick" (by Pandashake)

-I am going to xperiment and write back.

Any other ideas?

[The Chase]

Do you mean the typical house-pumping effect? I wouldn't be surprised since it is an example of something that everyone thinks is side-chaining when it usually is not.

[TOTAL]

Yeah, this same. How to achieve that when in the mixer there is no compressor, just a limiter with only threshold setting?

I have tried making kik and base samples using the same waveform, but this is too advance job for me, i.e. making good sounding samples from scratch is still not my level.

[Stomper]

If i understand what u mean....bass notes on the off beats. without the kick you have the feeling like the beat is on the bass, but when the kick hits u get that its not.

[qa2pir]

Maybe he sent them through the same compressor.

[TOTAL]

there is no compressor, just a limiter with only threshold setting

Without the kik the bassline was a full 16-note no-gap piece, without velocity alterations.

But when the 4x4 kik entered it totally masked the bass corresponding bass notes.

[mcetinsoy]

Well, this may be about limiter's character. When kick and bass hits at he same time threshold level is reached and limiter envelopes the sound in its default setting so you get a pumping effect. Kick's volume should be higher than the bass so when limiting occurs kick will mask the bass?

Regards

M.Cetinsoy

[SuperFly76]

Run both the bass and the kick through the limiter. Set the limiter's attack and release to fast. Make sure the kick is several dB louder than the bass. Adjust the threshold until you hear the effect that you want. Go back and tweak the attack and release to fine tune the effect to your liking.

[TOTAL]

thank you

[The Chase]

Yeah, this same. How to achieve that when in the mixer there is no compressor, just a limiter with only threshold setting?

I have tried making kik and base samples using the same waveform, but this is too advance job for me, i.e. making good sounding samples from scratch is still not my level.

Bus the kick and bass to their own channel. Make the kick a fair bit louder than the bass, so you can stick the limiter's threshold to a level so that the kick will always trigger it but the bass will never rise above the threshold (limiting/clipping the bass beforehand can help with this part). Then, up the ratio to your heart's desire.

The release value is very important. Too short and it won't pump. Too long and the compressor wont "catch" the next transient. The value is generally relevant to the tempo of the track. At 130BPM you're going to be using a longer release time, to have it pump musically, than you would at 150bpm, etc.

For more of a hardstyle sound, use a compressor instead of a limiter, and set the attack to catch the desired attack of the kick, and then distort the accented transient back down to where it would be had you used a limiter.

[Chris Walton]

Yeah, this same. How to achieve that when in the mixer there is no compressor, just a limiter with only threshold setting?

I have tried making kik and base samples using the same waveform, but this is too advance job for me, i.e. making good sounding samples from scratch is still not my level.

Bus the kick and bass to their own channel. Make the kick a fair bit louder than the bass, so you can stick the limiter's threshold to a level so that the kick will always trigger it but the bass will never rise above the threshold (limiting/clipping the bass beforehand can help with this part). Then, up the ratio to your heart's desire.

The release value is very important. Too short and it won't pump. Too long and the compressor wont "catch" the next transient. The value is generally relevant to the tempo of the track. At 130BPM you're going to be using a longer release time, to have it pump musically, than you would at 150bpm, etc.

For more of a hardstyle sound, use a compressor instead of a limiter, and set the attack to catch the desired attack of the kick, and then distort the accented transient back down to where it would be had you used a limiter.

+1000000000000000

[pdadda]

Can you post a clip?

[TravC]

When you say no compressor, just a limiter, I think that's the mistake.

A limiter is a compressor... therefore it will behave like one and perform a gain reduction and the following release tail, albeit quicker...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_range_compression