Electric guitar library (rock/metal rhythm) - thoughts?

[Architeuthis]

Interesting idea on the tremolo picking, might be hard to sync to tempo

All you do is create many many short pluck samples x-seconds long each. Then you sequence each pluck. You can sequence fast or slow depending on how long X represents. This is how VSL would do it if they were trying to do it. You'd then have to keyswitch to normal release samples at the end of your tremolo.


A A A A A A A A A A A [keyswitch to normal release samples] AAaaaaa.....

[jeffn1]

Because rock/metal hasn't been done well yet, in my opinion. There are several libraries that can do convincing strumming/chords however, eg. Chris Hein Guitars.

Good luck with this, Zircon. So far, like LPC a lot. But, even it could be improved with additional performance multis.

Making it easy to perform palm mutes with interspersed chords (and including options for harmonics too) realistically is important.

I would just sell it for use Kontakt with an included Kontakt multi instrument(s).

jeffn1

[zircon]

Yep, that's the plan! I already have a patch w/ mutes + open strings (for chords) plus harmonics that is really easy to play. We will be doing Kontakt format, too. I don't want to go into too many specifics since I'm mainly looking for feedback from other people. But for example, we're doing 8x round robins per note - 4x up and 4x down. No other library has this, and from personal experience, just 2x or 4x total RRs are not enough for fast sequences.

[Architeuthis]

so you're actually creating strum samples? So you have to create hundreds of strums for all sorts of chords? Isn't it easier to create singe samples and sequence strums?

Maybe I need to be filled in on what the plan on this library is going to be. I'm confused.

Edit: However, I happen to be the master at sequencing guitar strums.

[zircon]

I'm not outlining any plan because I'm not trying to promote this library yet I'm just looking for what other people would want to see in one. No, we are not doing strums. As I said, that has already been done thoroughly elsewhere and there is no need to reinvent the wheel (Realstrat, Chris Hein, etc)

[Architeuthis]

...midi libraries... a midi library filled with single strums for easy copy/paste... midi library + midi humanizer plugin... for strums... fast strums, slow strums...

think about it... ey? ey?

[nasenmann]

...midi libraries... a midi library filled with single strums for easy copy/paste... midi library + midi humanizer plugin... for strums... fast strums, slow strums...

think about it... ey? ey?

Why don't you do it, being the master of sequenced guitar strums?

[Architeuthis]

...midi libraries... a midi library filled with single strums for easy copy/paste... midi library + midi humanizer plugin... for strums... fast strums, slow strums...

think about it... ey? ey?

Why don't you do it, being the master of sequenced guitar strums?

MAYBE I WILL!!!

Uhh... well, here's a composition to prove my strum mastery: A Traveler Rests.mp3 (guitar is made up of *THREE* Kontakt 2 crappy sampled guitars. I also use a TKT script for hammer-ons (legato) and also for randomizing samples.)

For the perfect strum:

-Last note of a strum is loudest, first note is softest.
-Last note of a strum is the one that is supposed to be "on-the-beat."

[grey bird]

Ministry of Rock has the best sounding guitars. They are extensive too, but not overly complicated. The basses and drums are incredible too. Was recorded at one of the best studios anywhere.

[kevvvvv]

zircon

I like the concept of LPC but their performance setup is not intuitive, it is very large, very expensive, and lacks a level of depth in certain areas that I (and I think other people) want. It also has a lot of lead-focused content which I am not interested in.

I tend to agree with you here. There is certainly more room for more guitars. And though I wouldn't neglect lead sounds, the range could be usefully extended.

Personally I think strums need midi files to go with them.

My own experience of guitar strum samples is that they're awkard to use.

I've done loads of midi guitar editing and generally find it's a real ball ache unless you're totally dedicated to the end result.

Maybe using an audio-to-groove converter to convert good live strums into midi rhythms is a good idea? ie a guitarist records zillions of strums, then each is groove-converted into a midi file. I've not done this myself but I'm guessing that it could be done.

If it can, then it offers an easy route to making strums accessible, and cuts out the ballache editing.

[zircon]

Some interesting suggestions, cool Thanks you for the comments. Keep them coming! What do you guys want? What elements of what you use now are keeping your sequenced guitars from sounding realistic?

[jeffn1]

zircon

I like the concept of LPC but their performance setup is not intuitive, it is very large, very expensive, and lacks a level of depth in certain areas that I (and I think other people) want. It also has a lot of lead-focused content which I am not interested in.

I tend to agree with you here. There is certainly more room for more guitars. And though I wouldn't neglect lead sounds, the range could be usefully extended.

Personally I think strums need midi files to go with them.

My own experience of guitar strum samples is that they're awkard to use.

I've done loads of midi guitar editing and generally find it's a real ball ache unless you're totally dedicated to the end result.

Maybe using an audio-to-groove converter to convert good live strums into midi rhythms is a good idea? ie a guitarist records zillions of strums, then each is groove-converted into a midi file. I've not done this myself but I'm guessing that it could be done.

If it can, then it offers an easy route to making strums accessible, and cuts out the ballache editing.

I think you should just be able to switch between palm mutes and full chords with real time control in a way the sounds realistic. I think LPC is pretty good with this using the Superperformance Multi (and perhaps cuting out uneeded articulations). I hate Horizon's Overdrive (it is not very usable to me). Lyrical Distortion has (had?) great multis and was very easy to program between palm nutes and chords, but the sound (particularly for leads) just does not cut it, to my ears, as compared to LPC. {I do not have Chris Hein Guitars, but have hear good things).

I tend not to favor midi files for rhythm parts because I want full control, which, I think should be doable (check out Lyrical Distortion's Kontakt programming--its excellent IMHO!).

jeffn1

[Architeuthis]

I tend not to favor midi files for rhythm parts because I want full control, which, I think should be doable (check out Lyrical Distortion's Kontakt programming--its excellent IMHO!).

You should really explain what you envision midi files to be, since I think your statement "I want full control" makes absolutely no sense when referring to midi files.

My vision of midi files would be single strums, up strokes, down strokes, and a few different speeds; a few different chords just to get you started so you could edit, copy and paste and humanize all of it in real-time with a plugin or off-line with the DAW quantization.

[kevvvvv]

jeffn1 .. I appreciate your point of view and can see exactly where you're coming from.

I think our difference is one of vision rather than desire.

Truth is, I was shit at trying to strum wth a keyboard. I always got it wrong.

But I did well with Real Guitar and Virtual Guitar (I even had one of my VG tunes go on tour with Steinberg)

From this standpoint, I'd look towards a guitar strummer that worked like a drum machine, say BFD. Dial in the riffs and the breaks to taste, pick your kit, and then - whah-hey!

A few years ago this wouldn't have been very practical for guitar without massive investment.

But now with audio-to-groove software (does Sonar do this?), you could invite a bunch of guitar-playing mates around for the afternoon to strum their hearts in every conceivable nuance and style (Get them to bring their girlfriends too, so they really start showing off)

Then groove convert the lot, and the result would be enough guitar strumming midi files to populate the planet.

Cobble this lot into a sample-playing machine and a midi browser gui, then lo-and-behold, an instant guitar strumming VSTi that works like a drum machine.

I'd personally much prefer this to jerking my hands up and down the keyboard trying to pretend I'm playing a guitar, followed by a decade spent editing out the mistakes.

[jeffn1]

I tend not to favor midi files for rhythm parts because I want full control, which, I think should be doable (check out Lyrical Distortion's Kontakt programming--its excellent IMHO!).

You should really explain what you envision midi files to be, since I think your statement "I want full control" makes absolutely no sense when referring to midi files.

My vision of midi files would be single strums, up strokes, down strokes, and a few different speeds; a few different chords just to get you started so you could edit, copy and paste and humanize all of it in real-time with a plugin or off-line with the DAW quantization.

Basically, you could control palm mutes versus full chords by either velocity (as done by LPC) or by hitting the chord in different octaves (as done in Lyrical Distortion). You can have keyswitches for controlling up stroks and down strokes. You would control the speed by playing it in real time (or, perhaps slowed down real time).

You can control the amount harmonics come in by a midi controller, etc.

But, I understand not everyone works the way I prefer (even with Virtual Guitarist I tended to "force" it work this way).

Zircon, if you are looking for a beta tester (for the Kontakt multi), let me know.

jeffn1