Yet another VCS3 clone (free)

[ninecows]

Hi again NineCows!

I have made my first patch (a Jew harp effect) for you and will compile with others to come. I have no place to upload it though, so can I mail you or is there some place here at KVR to upload banks or something?

Don't know about uploading banks to KVR, but just pm me and I'll put them in.

Just a note: I guess the two version must have different ID's or something, cause you can not transfer a patch from the large edition to the small. Thus, I can only make patches for the small version.

Just do that then - I'll transfer them manually. My reason for making different ID's was that I thought they should have that in order not to conflict There's also this stupid multicore bug in synthedit, causing crashes if you load to copies of the same synth in your host, so I thougt different ID's could work around that.

When you are ready to receive wish-lists I would love to see some temposynced modulation on this one so it could be synced to the DAW right on. But thats only for the future. For now, I will sync the machine the old way.

1000 thanks again!

You're welcome. I considered putting in sync options, but then I thought: No way! The synth is oooold school so you guys just have to sync it by ears Perhaps I'll be nicer in the next version

[ninecows]

Looks lovely, but it's only showing up as an effect in Cubase Studio 4. It is not listed in the instrument list, and so cannot be played. Pity. Can you do something about this or advise on a workaround?

Cheers

Is there anyway you can route a midi signal from another track to the track with the synth? I would be surpriced if that wasn't possible in Cubase, but then again - haven't used that program since it could handle midi ONLY

Otherwise I've placed a "cubase edition" configured as a VSTi for you here:

http://www.nigo.dk/junk/Putney_CuEd.zip

I definately have to come up with a good solution for this, so it will be classified as a synth, but with the audio in still working. Also because people expect it to be a VSTi when the they download a synth...

So this is my first priority, but can't make any promises about when.

[HunterKiller]

Hmm, now I've moved it for a rescan, and it's there. Bizzare. Thanks ninecows.

Damn the gui is large, are you trying to compete with PolyAna or somethin', cause it takes the crown easily

You're welcome

There's a smaller edition for ya if you download the zip again

I'm using the big one myself (my screen is big enough) as I like to see what I'm doing...

Yup, yup same here, on a couple of big screens, makes it look as big as the real thing. And like you, a big fan of oldskool subtractive synthesis.

[Locus M]

Hi again NineCows!

When you are ready to receive wish-lists I would love to see some temposynced modulation on this one so it could be synced to the DAW right on. But thats only for the future. For now, I will sync the machine the old way.

1000 thanks again!

You're welcome. I considered putting in sync options, but then I thought: No way! The synth is oooold school so you guys just have to sync it by ears Perhaps I'll be nicer in the next version

tsk..tsk..tsk...you evil man...! However, I started in the eighties so I know my way around that rocketscience. As long as the modulators retriggers on note on (that is not running completely free with no possible retriggering), decent sync can be achieved. Haven't tested that yet.

Fine about the patches, I'll pm you!


Best regards!

[Hitchcock Bell]

Is there anyway you can route a midi signal from another track to the track with the synth? I would be surpriced if that wasn't possible in Cubase, but then again - haven't used that program since it could handle midi ONLY

Otherwise I've placed a "cubase edition" configured as a VSTi for you here:

http://www.nigo.dk/junk/Putney_CuEd.zip

I definately have to come up with a good solution for this, so it will be classified as a synth, but with the audio in still working. Also because people expect it to be a VSTi when the they download a synth...

So this is my first priority, but can't make any promises about when.

Well, bless YOOOU! I'll try it and get back. Hopefully, it'll be useful for other Cubasers too.

Cheers.

[Hitchcock Bell]

The Cubase version works very well, no problems detected yet - saves presets, no crashes, etc. It's a pleasure to use, and it behaves like the real thing. Whether it's an exact clone of the the real Putney/Synthi's oscillators and filters is another, perhaps academic, matter, but it's certainly a capable and worthy emu. Many thanks. Keep up the development, it's worth it.

P.S. It's a pity about the Synthedit problem with multi-cores. I only learned this for a fact today after looking at this thread. Previously, I'd been wondering why the hell multiple instances of my SE synths kept killing Cubase! Now I know.

[dreaddd]

Otherwise I've placed a "cubase edition" configured as a VSTi for you here:

http://www.nigo.dk/junk/Putney_CuEd.zip

swwwwwwwwwwwwwweet
thank u!
i still have to check this one, but really, thanx a lot for your efforts to make the gui size smaller and the version usable for cubasers
much appreciated

Peace out

[brok landers]

ninecows, this is awesome! better than any of the other emu's i've tried so far ... not the real thing, but i love it, thanks so much!
now please, get it done so that it will be recognised as a vsti ..... ask some synthedit freaks here, they'll help you i suppose .... thanks again!

[spacedad]

this is great,thanks! making narly sounds in XT1 ,it loads real quick too.
the big one just fits at 1440x900 and looks sweet.i've never tried a real one,but it's giving nasty noises my old korgms20 used to be capable of.love it.

[Locus M]

Hi again NC!

Still on this great synth. As you mention in the manual, though, it has some flaws.

Besides from the sleep mode, the modulators can make some strange modulator hick-ups. That is: If I make a basic synth with "normal" envelopes (a staccatto note) according to the env controls as you describe them in the manual and no mod (OSC -> Filter -> env -> out ) hick-ups that sounds like the modulations is starting to move the sound can occur. Like a square or sometimes saw that modulates the filter and/or the output AMP. A very charming old school analogue feeling arises here for sure! I can live with that...but you might want to check it out for the masses!

And I might need your help on the modulators in general, because I have not been able to judge whether the mods retrigger or not on "note on". Can I make one mod running free, while another is retriggered?

Do not mistake any of this. I'm still in heaven

And to potential customers out there: Be aware that this emulation goes far beyond sound and functionality. It has a steep learning curve and needs care and attention just like the real thing.


Best Regards

[ninecows]

Hi again NC!

Still on this great synth. As you mention in the manual, though, it has some flaws.

Besides from the sleep mode, the modulators can make some strange modulator hick-ups. That is: If I make a basic synth with "normal" envelopes (a staccatto note) according to the env controls as you describe them in the manual and no mod (OSC -> Filter -> env -> out ) hick-ups that sounds like the modulations is starting to move the sound can occur. Like a square or sometimes saw that modulates the filter and/or the output AMP. A very charming old school analogue feeling arises here for sure! I can live with that...but you might want to check it out for the masses!

I'm not sure I'm following you here... You mean like there's a "bleed" of signal from modulators (say the LFO) to something else in the matrix even though the LFO is not routed to anything?
If thats the case its not intended, but makes the synth is much closer to the original, than I thought it would be - the VCS3 was famous for signals bleeding in the matrix. But... I'm not sure I understand you correctly...

And I might need your help on the modulators in general, because I have not been able to judge whether the mods retrigger or not on "note on". Can I make one mod running free, while another is retriggered?

The only "mod" that's synced to note on is the envelope shaper/trapezoid. I thought of syncing everything, but as far as I recall nothing was sync'ed in the original. Hmm... perhaps I should throw in a sync-to-note-on row in the matrix? I'll have a look at it, but I'll have to re-do a lot of graphics then.

Do not mistake any of this. I'm still in heaven

You're welcome - I'm here too And I'm just happy for all the feedback and comments. I made the synth to fit my needs, but the only way it can fit the "masses" needs is by listening to the masses

And to potential customers out there: Be aware that this emulation goes far beyond sound and functionality. It has a steep learning curve and needs care and attention just like the real thing.

Yup - I think the real thing was intended to be just as much a scientist/educational toy as an actual instrument I recommend to read the original manuals for VCS3/Synthi which can be found at http://www.thesynthi.de (they're in english).

now please, get it done so that it will be recognised as a vsti ..... ask some synthedit freaks here, they'll help you i suppose .... thanks again!

I will... the official SE fora are a bit dead and difficult to find your way around, but I'm on the case. Alternatively I can do what Korg did with MS-20 in their Legacy Collection, making a VST and a VSTi edition? What do you guys think?

[ninecows]

And by the way... Imagine that the EMS making the hardware synths is also trying to sell a 350€ VSTi edition (this one: http://www.kvraudio.com/get/1186.html)

It's propably more pro (but its also made in SE) and is hopefully a better emulation, but still... 350€ for a SE synth?!? I wonder how many they've sold so far

(nothing bad about SE though - its a fantastic program and makes it so easy for nearly everyone to create exactly the synth they want, so while I'm at it: Thanks a lot Jeff )

I will keep my Putney free - don't want all the hazzle with setting up a webshop, having to pay taxes etc, just for squeezing you guys for a few bucks.

Just please credit me if you include the synth (the actual dll-file) in something else or want to do some reverse engineering on it. And dont make money re-selling it.

(and that's the EULA for The Putney - take it and learn MS )

Cheers!

[Locus M]

Hi again

I'm not sure I'm following you here... You mean like there's a "bleed" of signal from modulators (say the LFO) to something else in the matrix even though the LFO is not routed to anything?
If thats the case its not intended, but makes the synth is much closer to the original, than I thought it would be - the VCS3 was famous for signals bleeding in the matrix. But... I'm not sure I understand you correctly...

No I have found out what the problem is: It's the recycle-thing in the envelope section. I did not set OFF to full max so it would recycle the note a way long time after it had faded. Now it is a very peculiar mechanism anyway .If you play a staccatto note with the "Off!- bottom to minimum, the synth will recycle your note, thus creating a LFO amp effect like dum-dum-dum. You can stop this recycle by holding the key down when you hit it (a legato note). So there are actually two solutions to my problem: One is to set off to max , the other is hit the note legato and the recycling will stop. However we have now found a way to emulate the original bleeps you are describing

The only "mod" that's synced to note on is the envelope shaper/trapezoid. I thought of syncing everything, but as far as I recall nothing was sync'ed in the original. Hmm... perhaps I should throw in a sync-to-note-on row in the matrix? I'll have a look at it, but I'll have to re-do a lot of graphics then.

Now that is a problem in the realms of syncing science. Now completely free modulators were the true hell of such old bastards. If the modulators do not restart their phase on zero with note on, you will not be able to sync it to anything in the DAW manually. The only solution then is to do it the real-real old fashioned way, that is recording the sound for a couple of bars, slice it at the right start and end point and loop it.

However, in theory the envelope recycling should be like "retriggering" because it is just a repetition of the note by a rate that can be determined by the envelope settings. However so far it is only in theory, have not tested it. So that will make two of the "modulators" (recycling is not modulating I know but it sounds like it) retrigger.

Now there is a much more easy and non-violating solution to the problem than to add a row in the matrix. The OSC can be used as modulator. Now make one of them retrigger, say OSC 1 on note on. When you use it as a sound source this will not affect the sound to an audible level. That will only arise if you retrigger two of them in a layered sound, thus creating a "synced" sound were the osc resets to zero no matter where in the phase they are when you hit them. Now that is not a sound we want for this babe for sure. In other words, having 1 osc synced while two other are running free are just about the same as having three free running oscs as far as the sound concerns. Now I would be able to use OSC 1 as a modulator by which I manually can sync my tempo to the DAW. However the tempo settings seems restricted in range when I use OSC 1 (from medium to very fast - no "real slow"), so you might consider making the range of the tempo and the frequency settings two different functions ( I just guess right now that the rate of the tempo when used as a modulator is a linear function of the frequency settings -however I am on thin ice here, for I am indeed no expert I such details).

How I hope this makes sense to you, if not, please ask me!

I am on the 8th patch now, can you hear me singing up here?

Best Regards

[ninecows]

Now there is a much more easy and non-violating solution to the problem than to add a row in the matrix. The OSC can be used as modulator. Now make one of them retrigger, say OSC 1 on note on.

So... how about putting a small switch on each OSC that allows you to sync it to the gate-signal (note on)? That way its more up to the user what to sync.

Could also include a small slider/knob to adjust the phase of each OSC between 0 and 180 degrees - just to keep up the scientific and "everything is possible" spirit of the synth?

Should be pretty easy to implement

[Locus M]

Now there is a much more easy and non-violating solution to the problem than to add a row in the matrix. The OSC can be used as modulator. Now make one of them retrigger, say OSC 1 on note on.

So... how about putting a small switch on each OSC that allows you to sync it to the gate-signal (note on)? That way its more up to the user what to sync.

Could also include a small slider/knob to adjust the phase of each OSC between 0 and 180 degrees - just to keep up the scientific and "everything is possible" spirit of the synth?

Should be pretty easy to implement

....now there is this sweet music arising again ....God, I love being in heaven!


Now the switches would indeed be just fine with me, however the phase shift sliders is actually something I have never heard of before, I think you are being innovative now but I do not know or have played every synth on earth of course. You could go for that one but then I would suggest you to get copyrights on the sliders idea or something

Another thing: There is remarks in this thread about EMS emu of Synthi A and I guess you know it. Whether it is more authentic or not I could not say but yours do sound much better and much more like hardware in my hear, the oscs has a fine clean sound with no annoying digital sharpness, crunchiness (aliasing?) and glitches. Processing them in the matrix makes them alive and kicking besides from sounding even better.

Well music is music and I might just be naïve but this one goes far beyond the general level of freeware and could be payware any day. Of course, I do not want that to happen but you might would

Best Regards