No TLs-2094_LEIA sound examples

[pandashake]

Actually, I was thinking of KarmaFX Synth: didn't he get in a world of hurt when he finally unveiled the price? And that's without a dongle!

I for one was put off by the price tag of KarmaFX. I was expecting something around the $50 mark, as that seemed fair judging from what few people I know who donated put towards it (anywhere from $10-20 bucks). I understand that Kfx made it clear that it would one day be a commerical product, but $100 was/is more than I am willing to pay for it.

And as mentioned before, ddmf had a cool thing going for him. I doubt it netted that much money, but still, it's an awesome gesture for a commerical product. And that reminds me that I need to send him some dough and step up to the Pro eq.

So, if this thing does get released as a commerical product, please keep the price reasonable for what it is so factory workers with one kid (and another one on the way!) can get in on the action.

[bduffy]

Actually, I was thinking of KarmaFX Synth: didn't he get in a world of hurt when he finally unveiled the price? And that's without a dongle!

I for one was put off by the price tag of KarmaFX. I was expecting something around the $50 mark, as that seemed fair judging from what few people I know who donated put towards it (anywhere from $10-20 bucks). I understand that Kfx made it clear that it would one day be a commerical product, but $100 was/is more than I am willing to pay for it.

And as mentioned before, ddmf had a cool thing going for him. I doubt it netted that much money, but still, it's an awesome gesture for a commerical product. And that reminds me that I need to send him some dough and step up to the Pro eq.

So, if this thing does get released as a commerical product, please keep the price reasonable for what it is so factory workers with one kid (and another one on the way!) can get in on the action.

There you go, I knew I remembered something like that.

And I think one would have to take into account that daniel's main - almost only - exposure is from KVR, so slapping a giant price tag on it would almost definitely be seen as a slight. But I think if he really wants to make serious money, then repackage them for the pro market. We'll always have the free stuff.

[egbert]

Re the big bucks route:
I think anyone paying a lot for a copy protected plugin from a completely unestablished company has a) rocks in their head or b)too much money (in which case they should PM me and I can help relieve their angst). I have plenty of purchased plugs from the likes of EA who have either sold out or folded or just lost interest.

Waves (shudder) or NI (grrr) we can expect to be around. Smaller less grasping companies like PSP and Voxengo seem pretty committed for the long haul. As Daniel amply demonstrates in this thread (which A/lays out everything that is f*%ked up about the plugin business from his perspective and B/reads like a cross between some sort of playful/sadistic revenge on "the customer" and a play for some "group therapy" under false pretenses) and its predecessor, a commitment to mundane things is not in his nature (like being around to make new versions for the next twist of the OS revision/ST/AU stuff around). He has a day gig and a family and when he is doing this stuff his focus is clearly on creativity and self expression and not "customer service".

"Customers" and their attitudes give him the shits actually. He seems from this distance (in Meyer Briggs terms) like an INFP or INTP sort of guy maybe and in a corporate/team setting he would leave all the pesky stuff to others and just get on with making beautiful code and GUIs. Such a person trying to spread himself across everything in a commercial operation does not look like a recipe for happiness for anyone.

If Daniel wanted to make serious bucks from this (which I doubt) he would have been best to develop his code and then go straight onto a commercial basis like so many before him. If not serious bucks then why not go with donation ware and garner the respect which accrues to those who make such art?

The switch from freeware to payware has been very difficult for many excellent plugin dvelopers. I think Sascha Eversmeier's move to coding FX for Samplitude and Dr Sync's move to coding for NI are examples of top notch coders going from freeware (in SE's case) or share ware (Dr Sync) by joining an existing commercial infrastucture - and and relocating to another country in the case of Dr Sync.

All successful direct sellers seem to have one thing in common - commitment to providing very good customer support and being prepared to commit a lot of time to developing and sustaining their business. They seem to get clear in their heads what they want and then pursue in with the minimum of fuss.

Imagine if Daniel's approach here was directed at you by a potential romance/marriage partner. "Will I?/Won't I? ... Marriages all end up in divorce anyway ... Oh everything is f**ked up ..." etc. Does this sound like a good basis for a relationship, one with money involved? How bout C/R or a(nother) dongle?

[brok landers]

in all seriousness, release some of the new stuff or stopp teasing ...
dissapointment slowly but surely kills anticipation here ...
i mean, in the sense of the word, teasing means to give a sneakpreview of something "to be released soon" ...

Ok, I'll stop teasing then.

//Daniel

daniel, i did in no way offend you, i hope you know that ...
i highest possible rate your work, your stuff is simply said, top notch, it can't get much better in both, sound and gui (i just love your guis, i adore them, some dev's should come up to you for their guiwork) ...
but that _exactly_ makes me so bored, as one get's teased and teased, it's almost like jerking off, but right before the climax you have to hold your breath ... for a too long time ... after a while you just leave it, being dissapointed not actually _having_ the climax ...
of course that's just how _i_ am feeling, very subjective ...
there's an unwritten rule:
if you tease, you have to release ...

again, make it payware, even make it expensive, i don't care, i'd buy, right away, as you simply earn it ...
but: release it ...

[brok landers]

I suggest you go the synchrosoft way if possible. That way the risk of your plugins being cracked should be minimized and afaik it's even cheaper than ilok
(which isn't safe anymore i'd say). Then up the pricetag to say sonalksis etc. level and you should be fine. I'd also have a look at the mac market and make protools compatible versions available.

You deserve being paid for all the heavy work, period!

+10000

[koolkeys]

Syncrosoft= no sale from me. Why? Because I don't have a Syncrosoft dongle, or any for that matter. I'm not against them totally, but if I can avoid using one I will. Plus, it would put it likely way beyond my price limit.

That's just the blunt truth of one loyal user of your products. Not that you don't deserve more money or whatever. And I know that my one sale doesn't mean squat. But that's just my own opinion and how it would affect me.

Brent

[brok landers]

Please tell me why? I know lots of people dislike dongles but let's stay realistic. Whatever other method he chooses - his work will be stolen asap.

But i am no marketing strategist so i might be totally wrong here. It's just what I would do, probably...

which is the right way to go ...
point is, the synchrosoft dongle is the only stable (as opposed to ilok dongle), and it seems to be safe ...
if i'd be a developer, i'd not hesitate a second, i'd go all for synchrosoft dongle ...
you'd get paid for your hard work, as someone else already correctly stated here ...

[bduffy]

Syncrosoft= no sale from me. Why? Because I don't have a Syncrosoft dongle, or any for that matter. I'm not against them totally, but if I can avoid using one I will. Plus, it would put it likely way beyond my price limit.

That's just the blunt truth of one loyal user of your products. Not that you don't deserve more money or whatever. And I know that my one sale doesn't mean squat. But that's just my own opinion and how it would affect me.

Brent

I hear you, and the great news is: we're well beyond the point that you need a dongle to get at quality software. Now there are plenty of options. I'm totally biased, because I already have both dongles, but if I didn't already have them (and my host didn't need one), I'd be pretty offended by it.

[koolkeys]

That's the thing. I'm not against Syncrosoft. I'm not against dongles. I just won't buy these particular plugins if it goes Syncrosoft for various reasons. First is that I don't want to buy a dongle just because of some plugins. I have dozens of plugins that will run without a dongle, so why add one just for a couple?

Plus, there's the price as I said.

Brent

[koolkeys]

By the way, don't get me wrong. None of this has to do with the quality of plugins. I love the TbT stuff so far and use them. But I would not be able to be a customer if he took that route. Not when I can get great plugins for free or cheap that are accessible to me without extra cost.

It may not be the right path for TbT to not use a dongle. And I may just have to deal with the fact that he wants to do that if he would choose that route.

Brent

[bduffy]

Man. I just can't picture it: TbT dongled. It just seems wrong, maybe because he's "one of us"...

[brok landers]

Syncrosoft= no sale from me. Why? Because I don't have a Syncrosoft dongle, or any for that matter. I'm not against them totally, but if I can avoid using one I will. Plus, it would put it likely way beyond my price limit.
>snip<
Brent

brent (also bduffy), i know often it is not the case, but the plugin of course should be shipped including the dongle (if you don't own one already, that is), which is what you then could select on the shop-page ...
of course the dongle should be calculated in the price, if you'd buy the plugin with the dongle equipped ...
the dongle isn't too expensive, afaik around 20 dollar ...
so, let's just pretend the plugin is about 50 dollar hypothetically (just for the math, of course the price is daniels decision), plus 20 dollar for the dongle, that make 70 dollar ... i'd gladly pay that, no questions asked ...

[brok landers]

btw, of course there are plugins without a dongle, but the quality of daniel's plugs is really outstanding ... i guess it boils down how hard you want that plugin ...
i.e., there are already a lot of great eq's out, without a dongle, nevertheless i purchased air eq, which is synchrosoft dongled ... i wanted it, it provides the quality, so i bought it ...

[koolkeys]

Yeah, but a dongle for just one single plugin isn't worth it for me. If I were using Cubase and I used the dongle for that, it might be different. I use a laptop for about half of the editing I do(not mixing or mastering though) and don't know that I would want to have to plug it in if I didn't have to.

But wouldn't the price go up more than that? Are there any current Syncrosoft plugins that are that cheap? Last time I heard it was expensive to license it out. But I could be completely wrong.

Again, I have no dongles, but I've had one in the past(although it was the OLD teal printer port dongle of VST 3.7!).

Brent

[brok landers]

Yeah, but a dongle for just one single plugin isn't worth it for me.>snip<

hehe, well, you always start with _one_ ...
i think in near future a lot of dev's are going synchrosoft ...
the "lost" customers because of the dongle seem to be redundant, as the sales of the product don't seem to break down because of a crack ...
i spoke to some dev's who went synchrosoft, the all say that ...

But wouldn't the price go up more than that? Are there any current Syncrosoft plugins that are that cheap? Last time I heard it was expensive to license it out. But I could be completely wrong.

Brent

ok, i haven't thought about the _initial_ license fee, afaik you have to pay a certain initial-price, and after that a dongle is x-much and a license per plugin is x-much, but iirc it was something around 20 bucks ...
but i didn't think about the initial-price ...
however, the reason why these plugs are so expensive might have other reasons ...
maybe because a developer knows his very high quality, knows he worked a long time period on it and just wants to have that price as he thinks the quality is worth it ... i.e. in terms of air eq, the price is worth it ... or hypersonic2 ... the price is/was worth it ...
in the end i rate daniel's plugins in the same league like sonalksis or air eq ... they'd be simply worth it ...
i mean, we're not talking about some generic se/sm, or about anything that's equally sounding ...
daniel's stuff is just very professional, really highest possible quality ...