KVR Audio

bduffy · Post by **bduffy** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 6:10 am

Jeez..are there any cheap Syncrosoft-protected plugins? I guess they're not mutually exclusive...

koolkeys · Post by **koolkeys** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 7:17 am

I just want to say, and I HOPE this doesn't get taken the wrong way, that if TbT would go to the Syncrosoft and/or high priced route, it would just be too hard for me to support him when people like Jeroen Breebaart are creating top notch plugins for free. And even his Pro limiter, when I asked him about price, he said it would be "priced low enough that it wouldn't make sense to spend the time downloading through other means".

That's the way I feel TbT should go. That's only my opinion of course. But if given the choice of two top of the line plugins, one with the "low enough it's not worth getting illegally" or "attach a dongle and possibly pay a hefty fee for it", I choose the former. Not a knock against TbT, by any stretch. Just that it wouldn't make sense to me, especially if Jeroen or others continue to make high quality stuff(like if Jeroen expands the pro line).

Just my two cents. Which, added with my other posts, surely is worth a dollar, no?

Brent

bduffy · Post by **bduffy** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 7:41 am

I'll buy that for a dollar.

Yeah, that's basically how I feel too.

What about audiodamage? They seem to do OK with their unique payment model. I seem to recall Chris saying that some 4,000-odd people bought Ricochet (or something)...that's not too bad for such a relatively obscure company! What's that? Like, $200,000? I know they get a lot of flack for their pay-to-play thing, but hell: I think it's working! (that, and their plug-ins freakin' destroy!)

koolkeys · Post by **koolkeys** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 7:44 am

Well, you may also note that they are ALWAYS quality, and their support is good from what I've heard. Surely you can still build a successful company on those values alone, right?

That's why I think TbT should go a similar route. But that's just me.

Brent

bduffy · Post by **bduffy** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 7:50 am

Yep. I'd like to think Daniel could go that way too; talk about good reputation! I would like to think that if he charged something reasonable, we would all pay him in kind for his years of wonderful work. But perhaps I'm being idealistic...

Liero · Post by **Liero** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 9:50 am

*butchers bmanic*

jens · Post by **jens** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 2:07 pm

Liero wrote:*butchers bmanic*

+1

mauseoleum · Post by **mauseoleum** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 2:18 pm

egbert wrote:Re the big bucks route:
I think anyone paying a lot for a copy protected plugin from a completely unestablished company has a) rocks in their head or b)too much money (in which case they should PM me and I can help relieve their angst). I have plenty of purchased plugs from the likes of EA who have either sold out or folded or just lost interest.

Waves (shudder) or NI (grrr) we can expect to be around. Smaller less grasping companies like PSP and Voxengo seem pretty committed for the long haul. As Daniel amply demonstrates in this thread (which A/lays out everything that is f*%ked up about the plugin business from his perspective and B/reads like a cross between some sort of playful/sadistic revenge on "the customer" and a play for some "group therapy" under false pretenses) and its predecessor, a commitment to mundane things is not in his nature (like being around to make new versions for the next twist of the OS revision/ST/AU stuff around). He has a day gig and a family and when he is doing this stuff his focus is clearly on creativity and self expression and not "customer service".

"Customers" and their attitudes give him the shits actually. He seems from this distance (in Meyer Briggs terms) like an INFP or INTP sort of guy maybe and in a corporate/team setting he would leave all the pesky stuff to others and just get on with making beautiful code and GUIs. Such a person trying to spread himself across everything in a commercial operation does not look like a recipe for happiness for anyone.

If Daniel wanted to make serious bucks from this (which I doubt) he would have been best to develop his code and then go straight onto a commercial basis like so many before him. If not serious bucks then why not go with donation ware and garner the respect which accrues to those who make such art?

The switch from freeware to payware has been very difficult for many excellent plugin dvelopers. I think Sascha Eversmeier's move to coding FX for Samplitude and Dr Sync's move to coding for NI are examples of top notch coders going from freeware (in SE's case) or share ware (Dr Sync) by joining an existing commercial infrastucture - and and relocating to another country in the case of Dr Sync.

All successful direct sellers seem to have one thing in common - commitment to providing very good customer support and being prepared to commit a lot of time to developing and sustaining their business. They seem to get clear in their heads what they want and then pursue in with the minimum of fuss.

Imagine if Daniel's approach here was directed at you by a potential romance/marriage partner. "Will I?/Won't I? ... Marriages all end up in divorce anyway ... Oh everything is f**ked up ..." etc. Does this sound like a good basis for a relationship, one with money involved? How bout C/R or a(nother) dongle?

things that make you go hmmm
(not in a way that I would be surprised with _that_ post, but with the fact that more concern goes into dongle chat and less onto purely practical side of the matter. maybe it's too obvious?)

egbert · Post by **egbert** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 2:27 pm

mauseoleum wrote: things that make you go hmmm
(not in a way that I would be surprised with _that_ post, but with the fact that more concern goes into dongle chat and less onto purely practical side of the matter. maybe it's too obvious?)

OK - I'll bite. WTF are you trying to say?

If someone releases a plugin with a simple serial number C/P and then disappears into that long dark night that awaits all developers eventually then at least you can keep using it as long as you have a VST host and WinXP compatible OS. If they have C/R or a dongle and fold operations you are screwed. If you like working on a laptop or something dongles consume precious resources and are vulnerable to theft. They also add to cost. Given all that why would users in this thread propose to Daniel that he release his code in dongled format. This thread seems really unhealthy.

mauseoleum · Post by **mauseoleum** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 3:14 pm

@Egbert:
You outlined it nicely, the obvious stuff, that's why I quoted it in the first place.

The whole thing seemed heavily head-over-the-hills to me.

Makes sense now?

egbert · Post by **egbert** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 3:23 pm

mauseoleum wrote:@Egbert:
You outlined it nicely, the obvious stuff, that's why I quoted it in the first place.

The whole thing seemed heavily head-over-the-hills to me.

Makes sense now?

Well, sort of

"Head over the hills" is not idiomatic English that I am familiar with but perhaps English is not your first language so I am guessing you mean "head in the clouds" or something like that.

mauseoleum · Post by **mauseoleum** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 3:34 pm

Hmm ... well ... yes ... idi-o-matic
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_q ... _n12740889

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_q ... 0889/print
(printable version for safekeeping)

egbert · Post by **egbert** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 3:48 pm

mauseoleum wrote:Hmm ... well ... yes ... idi-o-matic
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_q ... _n12740889

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_q ... 0889/print
(printable version for safekeeping)

Google is not always your friend, even if you aren't Microsoft.

"Head over the hills" in that sense means that your destination or direction is "over the hills".

Eg "This weekend I am going hunting with my sons. We are going to head over the hills behind my house and find nicelittle furry animals and kill them." That sort of thing. It is quite literal, not figurative.

"Head in the clouds" is a figure of speech or a metaphor which means something along the lines that the person has lost a firm grip on what is real or likely and has let their mind run away with them.

mauseoleum · Post by **mauseoleum** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 4:07 pm

Well ... yes ... "destination Synchrosoft".
(Sure I arn't Micro$oft)

ddummer · Post by **ddummer** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 4:20 pm

"priced low enough that it wouldn't make sense to spend the time downloading through other means".

Thats right... compete with the criminals... make sense.. not.

it would just be too hard for me to support him when people like Jeroen Breebaart are creating top notch plugins for free.

In other words paying for a persons efforts will never be the cool thang
as long as you can get simular for free...

So that is why people keep having this persisting 1176 questions about every plug out there.... they can't find a free one....

//Daniel

No TLs-2094_LEIA sound examples