No TLs-2094_LEIA sound examples

[lazerkind]

Well I just wanted to add one more + for non dongle solutions.
I have plenty of C/R software and have no problems with that solution, although most people seem to prefer Serials.

But I completely understand Daniels point of view. The ethics of many people today is concerning software is just weird.

If you don't pay anything for something then what is it worth?

(Du gör riktigt grymma pluggar Daniel, hoppas du kommer fram till en lösning som du trivs med)
//L

[shamann]

In other words paying for a persons efforts will never be the cool thang
as long as you can get similar for free...

No one here said that.

Paying is different from paying a high price and agreeing to certain restrictive complications like a dongle. It's true, I won't buy something I feel isn't as good as freeware, but many people here, including me, would and do buy things that they feel are good and have a unique character.

I can't imagine I'd ever spend more than $200 on a compressor plugin, no matter who made it or how good it was, and in those cases I'm perfectly comfortable making do with the alternatives that cost less or are free. Some folk will though, seemingly quite happily.

But if 2095, which you released as freeware, had been released at $50, I'd have gotten it in a second, and likely would any other plugin you put out there.

You seem to be taking a rather extreme approach to all of this. There are lots of viable points in-between freeware and Algorithmix. The point is that once you start selling them, it's a business, how you approach and succeed at that is up to you, not up to the end user. Customers owe you nothing but the money on the bill. If you manage your business right, there will be customers.

If you can't abide by the world of business, don't go in to business. You don't owe us these plugins you've made, so do with them as you wish. If you wish to give them away, thanks that's generous of you. If you wish to sell them, good luck, I wish you success. If you wish to keep them for yourself, have fun.

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

But if 2095, which you released as freeware, had been released at $50, I'd have gotten it in a second, and likely would any other plugin you put out there.

That's the no-brainer range IMO. When Audio Damage puts out something I can see myself using, I buy it blind. Daniel's stuff is held in that same high-regard. I would even be ok with buying a TBT bundle at a higher price if one were to ever exist.

But, I am with the people here who think a dongle would be a deal breaker. Has Daniel ever even talked about considering dongles as an option though, or have we just allowed that to snowball conversing amongst ourselves?

[ddummer]

That dongle thought came from you guys.

Unless you sell yourself to a bigger company there isn't a remote
finacial chance that you could afford it if you want to MAKE money.

If you are a small person then all these fancy stuff is out of your
range where you have to believe in trust..... mmm... that was the thing.

//Daniel

[ddummer]

I'm going to be more naive: (wweee,weeee)

Let's say that you programmed on something for say two years.
You release it and woosh it is cracked and released on all shared hubs the next day.

Then emails start to show up asking what the hell it is, how do you
use it,why should I use it....

(duhh, RTFM, if you ask yourself that.....)

Or the attitude, Nice start where is the rest?

(gimme more, oink)

If I'm going to buy it then you'll have to throw in a cup of coffee and so on..

WTF?! It boil down to respect. Doing business over the internet would be
to open up for all these anonymmous people that would have a:
"I don't have anything to loose here so let's bombard the company with
requests and all other shit and I might get what I want , EVEN if I'm using the crack because I COULD be a potential customer.".

You would belive how much garbage that will follow just because it is
software.

Why do you think that companies talk about themselves in 3 person?

But then they are a-holes that deserve to be stolen from because they
are not a people person.

So everything is about respect. If you don't have it you are dead meat
no matter what you do.

But honestly don't you thnik developers suck up a bit too much these
days because they are scared shit to be bad mouthed?

I could think of one business model: brutal honesty.

Support? Yes if it is about the product not "weeee, I can't get it to show up in cakewalk. help me!!" RUFM.

Bugs=Support. The allknowing oracle to be asked any question=NO.

(ahh... dinner)

[bmanic]

*butchers bmanic*

+1

Cheers!
bManic

[bmanic]

"priced low enough that it wouldn't make sense to spend the time downloading through other means".

Thats right... compete with the criminals... make sense.. not.

it would just be too hard for me to support him when people like Jeroen Breebaart are creating top notch plugins for free.

In other words paying for a persons efforts will never be the cool thang
as long as you can get simular for free...

So that is why people keep having this persisting 1176 questions about every plug out there.... they can't find a free one....

//Daniel

This is why I suggested the high serious $$$ route for you. You obviously need to "feel" like the people buying your plugins respect your work and SHOW it by voting with their wallet. You guys are just different personalities. Joeroen Breebaart doesn't seem to have the same needs to fulfill as you seem to have, hence he can use the model of "pay very little, but rather pay than download illegally".

Both ways are perfectly valid. You just need to choose a route that works with your own ideals. Don't let the bitching here keep you down.

Cheers!
bManic

[shamann]

But honestly don't you thnik developers suck up a bit too much these days because they are scared shit to be bad mouthed?

Welcome to business. Open up a flower shop, or a restaurant, or a bank, or a public relations firm, or a magazine, or a maid service and see how much shit you have to deal with.

Software developers take shit, sure, but no more than anyone else selling something. Don't want shit, don't sell something.

[shamann]

This is why I suggested the high serious $$$ route for you. You obviously need to "feel" like the people buying your plugins respect your work and SHOW it by voting with their wallet.

You'll get exactly the same amount of respect that you put in to it, no matter what the price. Only difference between low cost and high cost in terms of business is that one sale will make you more money. You're dreaming if you think the clientele are any more respectful by default when they pay more, their diction just tends to be a little bit better.

[ddummer]

Don't want shit, don't sell something.

Might be worth all the possible future earnings to be able to tell some twat that can't get the "copied install.exe to the plugin folder won't show up in host" to f**k off....

Seriously.

//Daniel

[ddummer]

By the way: How many of the Companies out there talking about themselves in plural are really one person doing it all?

We here at TbT got lots of things to say....

//Daniel

[shamann]

Don't want shit, don't sell something.

Might be worth all the possible future earnings to be able to tell some twat that can't get the "copied install.exe to the plugin folder won't show up in host" to f**k off....

Seriously.

//Daniel

It just might be.

If you are considering it, you should try emailing a few software companies and ask them about their experiences with idiots and people ripping them off. Chris at Audio Damage has told some pretty entertaining stories about some of the emails he fields. My favourite was the guy who bought Dubstation thinking it was hardware.

[brok landers]

I just want to say, and I HOPE this doesn't get taken the wrong way, that if TbT would go to the Syncrosoft and/or high priced route, it would just be too hard for me to support him when people like Jeroen Breebaart are creating top notch plugins for free. And even his Pro limiter, when I asked him about price, he said it would be "priced low enough that it wouldn't make sense to spend the time downloading through other means".
>snip<
Brent

of course i'd prefer daniel to not go for dongle protection at all, a normal serial would do it for _me_, just to get that straight ...
it's just that i (exept the pricetag) i _never_ had issues with synchrosoft dongles, and i could understand that this could be his way to go, as for him it means maximum protection ...
in therms of joeren breebaart:
his stuff is great, but imo not in the league of tbt ... daniels stuff, i have to say that again, is ... well ... how can i put it ... really highest achievable quality ... i wouldn't hesitate a second if i had to decide between breebaart and tbt ... it'd be tbt without any doubt ... up to now ...

[bmanic]

This is why I suggested the high serious $$$ route for you. You obviously need to "feel" like the people buying your plugins respect your work and SHOW it by voting with their wallet.

You'll get exactly the same amount of respect that you put in to it, no matter what the price. Only difference between low cost and high cost in terms of business is that one sale will make you more money. You're dreaming if you think the clientele are any more respectful by default when they pay more, their diction just tends to be a little bit better.

Hmm.. I disagree. There's a difference in buying something for the sake of it being an invaluable tool, rather than just buying it as a gimmick. This is the difference. Professionals buy their tools because they need them whereas I'm sure many people buy 5$ plugins just for the sake of buying it and perhaps using it once in a track. I'm not trying to generalize (it always end up being like that no matter what I try) but I'm sure you realize that if somebody is actually saving up for a thing, a long time, he/she can barely afford, it will mean much more to the person and it also shows that the person TRULY needs the thing.

Cheers!
bManic

[brok landers]

In other words paying for a persons efforts will never be the cool thang
as long as you can get similar for free...

No one here said that.

Paying is different from paying a high price and agreeing to certain restrictive complications like a dongle. It's true, I won't buy something I feel isn't as good as freeware, but many people here, including me, would and do buy things that they feel are good and have a unique character.

>snip<

well, the sad truth seems to be a bit different:
like i said, as i'm a sounddesigner, i know a lot of developers ...
with most of them (who actually use synchrosoft) i discussed about synchrosoft dongle protection, and they all more or less said the same:
when they we're not synchrosoft, the sales dropped in a really significant ammount as soon as the crack was availlable ... quite instantly ...
they went sc-dongle, and the sales stayed constant ...
summed up, they said, they didn't loose sales or customers, it's even more the other way around:
they did not have to deal with the fact that a plugin is cracked (which indeed is a high ammount of work), all that in that case won energy they did put into the support and the ongoing development of future products ... which made the company more stable and the users are happy ... well, exept the usual always-moaners of course ...
also, who here really can say that synchrosoft caused them any trouble (within the last year, when synchrosoft protection got really stable)?
that easy .... imo ...

again, not that i prefer it ... but i think in future that's the way to go, if you're seriously consider your comany to be pro and that you want to last on the market for a longer period of time ...