No TLs-2094_LEIA sound examples

[brok landers]

This is why I suggested the high serious $$$ route for you. You obviously need to "feel" like the people buying your plugins respect your work and SHOW it by voting with their wallet.

You'll get exactly the same amount of respect that you put in to it, no matter what the price. Only difference between low cost and high cost in terms of business is that one sale will make you more money. You're dreaming if you think the clientele are any more respectful by default when they pay more, their diction just tends to be a little bit better.

Hmm.. I disagree. There's a difference in buying something for the sake of it being an invaluable tool, rather than just buying it as a gimmick. This is the difference. Professionals buy their tools because they need them whereas I'm sure many people buy 5$ plugins just for the sake of buying it and perhaps using it once in a track. I'm not trying to generalize (it always end up being like that no matter what I try) but I'm sure you realize that if somebody is actually saving up for a thing, a long time, he/she can barely afford, it will mean much more to the person and it also shows that the person TRULY needs the thing.

Cheers!
bManic

good point, bmanic, perfectly true ..
the pricetag also (not exclusiveley) determines the quality, or at least where the developer sees his product ... you can really ruin a good product with a too low price, allthough there are some rare exeptions like i.e. voxengo ...

[sluggo]

But honestly don't you thnik developers suck up a bit too much these
days because they are scared shit to be bad mouthed?

I am appalled at how several kvr members badger developers, it is unbelievable and disrespectful. It turns my stomach every time someone brings up the "customer is always right" crap. As if everyone is a mini Ralf Nader. Give me a break. No, the customer is not always right and a developer has the right to stick up for themselves. But if a developer takes this tact it isn't long until the witch hunt begins. "I was going to buy your plugin until I read this thread. You should apologize to xxx and promise that you'll never do that again..."

I don't think there is any magic solution to all of this, these are complex issues and at some point you'll just have to choose which path you like best. To be honest, this thread has confused me a bit, are you debating with yourself on what to do with your plugins: keep to yourself, give away, sell cheap or sell expensive?

Personally I think the best approach is to keep things as simple as possible. keep, give away or sell cheap. Be up front on minimal tech support. don't feel obligated to answer support requests unless you decide to sell for big $$. Tune out the badgering, keep every "product" post as professional as possible. Ignore the pirating, it'll happen. (kind of like when I bought a sportbike - I knew it was going to get stolen at some point. I lost the sportbike battle but I won my internal self-respect moral/ethical battle which is more important than what any loser can do to me ).

s.

[sluggo]

What about audiodamage? They seem to do OK with their unique payment model.

What is their unique payment model? It looks to me that you purchase a plugin for $50. That's it. what am I missing?

[brok landers]

This is why I suggested the high serious $$$ route for you. You obviously need to "feel" like the people buying your plugins respect your work and SHOW it by voting with their wallet.

You'll get exactly the same amount of respect that you put in to it, no matter what the price. Only difference between low cost and high cost in terms of business is that one sale will make you more money. You're dreaming if you think the clientele are any more respectful by default when they pay more, their diction just tends to be a little bit better.

hmmm, i seriously doubt that ... i think bmanic is right on thatone ...
in a realistic world respect is beeing paid with money ... not that it's the preferable way, but i think it just is like that as we get taught for that since ages by the society we live in ...
it's like that, imo:

daniel gets respect right now, as he delivers highest possible quality for free ... let's see how many here (no pointing at anyone in particular here) will stick with the praising and actually going to support him, if he goes into a bit higherpriced payware section ...
the moaning would start right away ...
it's about those who stick with him, supporting him ... those are the ones that a dev calculates with, if he wants to survive ...
we f***ing have to learn that developing _good_ software is expensive, if we want it to last ... i don't mind to pay for high quality, and i don't mean the product only, i also mean the company, that should be able to survive in order to deliver me good, serious support and ongoing development of highest quality products ...that's what you pay, too ... and i'd gladly pay for that ...

[shamann]

Hmm.. I disagree. There's a difference in buying something for the sake of it being an invaluable tool, rather than just buying it as a gimmick. This is the difference. Professionals buy their tools because they need them whereas I'm sure many people buy 5$ plugins just for the sake of buying it and perhaps using it once in a track. I'm not trying to generalize (it always end up being like that no matter what I try) but I'm sure you realize that if somebody is actually saving up for a thing, a long time, he/she can barely afford, it will mean much more to the person and it also shows that the person TRULY needs the thing.

These professionals you speak of, they aren't exactly the types to be saving up their hard earned money to buy a plugin. In most cases it's a business expense, and as such finances play a much different role in the equation than just the average hobbiest user. And based on what I've read on forums where engineers and studio owners hang out, they seem far more inclined to buy a $200 plugin that they'll use once in a while than I am.

Most of my clients pay $5000-$8000 per deliverable, I can assure you that they aren't exactly clued in to what I do (based on how often I have to explain the same things over and over again) nor are they always filled to brimming with respect, despite being among the largest companies and organizations in Canada.

[Shy]

My favourite was the guy who bought Dubstation thinking it was hardware.

lol
have a link to it?

[shamann]

lol
have a link to it?

http://www.analogindustries.com/blog/en ... 5192752310

[koolkeys]

Higher priced plugins don't gain extra respect. Your clients end up being customers who have the money, and expect a LOT more of you. These customers will be more crunched for time when they have a problem, and expect faster and more comprehensive tech support. They are used to calling up a company and talking to a live person to fix a problem NOW, not getting on a message board during a session or typing an email and waiting. If that's the only support you have, many people will just pull your plugin out of the track and insert something else instead.

Not EVERYONE who buys will fall into this category, but when you jump into that higher priced market, that's the customer you get. Respect? Give me a break. They don't respect the companies they buy from. They EXPECT from companies they buy from. Period. If you think that higher priced plugins gets you MORE respect, you are wrong.

Will there be a few people here on KVR that can afford those plugins that will respect you? Sure. But those exact same customers will respect you for lower priced plugins as well. The customers you reach outside of internet message boards will not provide the same respect.

Price it how you want. It's your work, and you deserve to be paid. If you can't afford to license the dongle, then plain and simple; your plugins will be cracked. I should say, however, that there are lots of independent developers who have NOT had their plugins cracked. I can give you the names of them if you want. But there are several.

As for my comments about Jereon Breebaart, I disagree that his thinking is wrong. It may not be right for you, but that doesn't make it wrong. And it's not about deciding not to pay somebody because something similar is free or cheaper. That's just business, it's not a dig on you. I don't exactly have a large budget for spending money. If somebody has a similar or at least somewhat close in terms of quality for a plugin, and they are cheaper, then yes, I'll buy from them first.

By your statements ddummer about all this, it seems like you feel that because you deserve respect, that paying for somebody's stuff that is cheaper doesn't give you that. But what about them? Don't they deserve my respect as well? Definitely.

Basically, if you want to make money, you have to go into business. If you can't handle the pains and frustrations of business, you don't have to go into it. But you won't make any money. If money isn't an issue for you, then keep it free or don't release anything.

Brent

[bmanic]

Hmm.. I disagree. There's a difference in buying something for the sake of it being an invaluable tool, rather than just buying it as a gimmick. This is the difference. Professionals buy their tools because they need them whereas I'm sure many people buy 5$ plugins just for the sake of buying it and perhaps using it once in a track. I'm not trying to generalize (it always end up being like that no matter what I try) but I'm sure you realize that if somebody is actually saving up for a thing, a long time, he/she can barely afford, it will mean much more to the person and it also shows that the person TRULY needs the thing.

These professionals you speak of, they aren't exactly the types to be saving up their hard earned money to buy a plugin. In most cases it's a business expense, and as such finances play a much different role in the equation than just the average hobbiest user. And based on what I've read on forums where engineers and studio owners hang out, they seem far more inclined to buy a $200 plugin that they'll use once in a while than I am.

Most of my clients pay $5000-$8000 per deliverable, I can assure you that they aren't exactly clued in to what I do (based on how often I have to explain the same things over and over again) nor are they always filled to brimming with respect, despite being among the largest companies and organizations in Canada.

Perhaps my example of professional versus the general mob was not a good one, but Brok summed it all up nicely and nailed exactly what I was trying to point out.

The developer EARNS respect with the quality of his product. The consumer can choose to SHOW respect by supporting him.

Cheers!
bManic

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

You can always solicit your plugins to people who you know won't share or crack them, and offer them the plugins at reasonable prices. I doubt you'll make a lot of money that way, but it will solve all of your problems.

In fact, PM me a fair price for your new plugs and I'll paypal you some cash.

[Shy]

lol
have a link to it?

http://www.analogindustries.com/blog/en ... 5192752310

Thanks

[pough]

daniel gets respect right now, as he delivers highest possible quality for free ... let's see how many here (no pointing at anyone in particular here) will stick with the praising and actually going to support him, if he goes into a bit higherpriced payware section ...
the moaning would start right away ...

That's funny. Can I keep praising him while I also moan about not having enough money to pay for his plugins, or does praise for technology equate to having enough money to pay for it? Or by "support" do you mean voicing some kind of "you, go Daniel!" and then sighing and scanning for something else less expensive?

[trickykid]

If you need tech support, stop making music.

Overpriced!

[kmonkey]

This thread is for Oprah show...

[bmanic]