A# Phrygian

[bubbleeconomy]

Can someone help me in listing chords based on the Phrygian scale in A# and A#m? Thanks

[larm]

Using http://randscullard.com/CircleOfFifths/

i get for A# phrygian

1 A#m
2 B
3 C#
4 D#m
5 E#dim
6 F#
7 G#m

[nuffink]

Can someone help me in listing chords based on the Phrygian scale in A# and A#m? Thanks

Some confusion here.

The Phrygian "scale" is actually a mode of the major scale. You can have A# Phrygian or you can have the relative Phrygian mode of A# major which is C## Phrygian (which is why A# is usually spelled Bb).
What you can't have is any kind of A#m Phrygian. It doesn't work like that.
Assuming you mean A# Phrygian the characteristic chords are...

A#min
A#min7
A#sus4
A#7sus4
The available tensions on the seventh chords are the minor 9th, perfect 11th and minor 13th.

[bubbleeconomy]

thanks for your replies.

[jancivil]

avoid diminished chords entirely, it destroys the mode, and leads to its equivalent major scale transposition.

[nuffink]

avoid diminished chords entirely, it destroys the mode, and leads to its equivalent major scale transposition.

What?

[jancivil]

avoid diminished chords entirely, it destroys the mode, and leads to its equivalent major scale transposition.

What?

a diminished chord contains a tension, the tritone. this tension wants to resolve, by nature, it's acoustically unstable. (unless you've given it a certain context, and that thought is outside our scope here)

if you mean begin with A#, a phrygian mode on that tonic:

a# b c# d# e# f# g#

note the triad which results from the root e#: e# g# b, a diminshed triad.

play it. put a c# under it, it's a dominant 7th; either way, it likes to have a dominant function and REALLY wants to resolve, particularly, to f#; this is the MAJOR scale relation (transposition was a bad word, I'm on pain meds, sorry) of your a# phrygian, avoid it, this destroys the modal aspect of the scale, we're hearing in this case f# major, and phrygian is out the window completely now.

any mode will have a couple of chords which feature the characteristic of that mode. phrygian is about the 'flat 2', & the 'flat 7'.

on an a# tonic, the b and the g#, (besides obviously your tonic chord) will be your tones to build a chord (by thirds, fourths, you-name-it).

Modal music always keeps in mind the tonic, otherwise it's something else, always refer to 'I'; it isn't about a lot of chords, in fact isn't about chord movement at all. Not. At. All. That is something else.
you have your 'I' and your satellite colors, in this case it's really the flat 2 and flat 7 which create the feel of 'phrygian'

if you really want to be modal with the thing, thinking in terms of seven chords per mode isn't going to get you anywhere; it's useful in a diatonic way of thinking to know your triads for the so-called 'ionian' mode (= major scale, which by way of convention is where one tends to start to find the *modes*, this set of pitches has a key signature of F# major, hence F# ionian) given for this set of 7 pitches, but it's utterly beside the point for the other modes.

[Hink]

This is a chordwizard report, if you have the software it has a guitar neck to show you both chords and scales, plus of course the relations.

[Melkor]

I have experimented with using a diminished triad as a dominant when using phrygian and phrygian dominant modal "progressions" ...... jancivil is correct when he states that it destroys the mode ... it sounds like complete balls and the resolve to the relative major is unavoidable.

Its all about drones,modal colour notes(b2,b7) and the i/I chord.

For A# Phrygian I would use an A#m7b9 chord followed by a BMaj7#11.
Sounds awesome.

[Kammy J]

What's this A# talk? it's Bb, there's no such thing as the key of A#.
the Bb phrygian scale goes: Bb Cb Db Eb F Gb Ab (Bb).

The most common phrygian progression in this key that I know goes Bb minor, Ab major, Gb major, F major (it's in "hit the road, jack") Jam it up!

[duncanparsons]

Err.. Yes, on an even tempered scale A# and Bb appear in the same place, but on a proper stringed instrument with no frets, you can play both as separate notes if you have the ear and the skill. It enables you to play certain scales such that they sound properly in tune, rather than mostly sort-of in tune.

A# is a totally valid key, with a variety of associated modes.

The sad dumbing down that has come with the advent of MIDI sequencing has resulted in the people believing that octaves have no Db or D#, no Gb or G#, no A#, and as for E#, Fb, B# and Cb or any concept of the double sharp or double flat? well, you won't be seeing those again. Very sad.

DSP

[nuffink]

Err.. Yes, on an even tempered scale A# and Bb appear in the same place, but on a proper stringed instrument with no frets, you can play both as separate notes if you have the ear and the skill. It enables you to play certain scales such that they sound properly in tune, rather than mostly sort-of in tune.

A# is a totally valid key, with a variety of associated modes.

The sad dumbing down that has come with the advent of MIDI sequencing has resulted in the people believing that octaves have no Db or D#, no Gb or G#, no A#, and as for E#, Fb, B# and Cb or any concept of the double sharp or double flat? well, you won't be seeing those again. Very sad.

DSP

No not sad at all.

Music theory is intimidating partly because its naming conventions are obscure and often contradictory. Much of it doesn't make any sense at all outside of a 7 note scale (one particular 7 note scale at that). It uses a method of dividing a bar that is arcane to the point of perversity. I presume because historically many musicians couldn't count as high as, say, 16.

It's jargon and like all jargon it's deliberately designed to exclude those outside the profession.

Nobody should have to deal with double sharps or double flats. They're a relic that should have been consigned to the dustbin of history centuries ago.

[Melkor]

If double sharps and double flats were no longer available , how on earth would a composer notate an actual double sharp pitched note in a piece that also contains accidentals ? ...reiterate the key sig everytime it happens?....i dont think so ........... i suspect that the fact these notes ACTUALLY occur IN NOTATION is the reason why we have them in the 1st place.

anyway where were we? ........ I personally think Phrygian Dominant sounds waaaay spicier and fiery than Phrygian Minor.

E Phrygian Dominant = E7 / F/E
E Phrygian Minor = Em / F/E

[nuffink]

If double sharps and double flats were no longer available , how on earth would a composer notate an actual double sharp pitched note in a piece that also contains accidentals ?

Flatten the note above? Since this nomenclature only works for scales which contain no consecutive semitones (implying no interval greater than a minor third) you can be certain that all notes can be covered by single flattening or sharpening.

[Melkor]

You know what ...... your right.

I guess it goes back to the "letter name once only in a scale" rule,which has already been discussed.