KVR Audio

leejohnson222 · Post by **leejohnson222** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 2:58 pm

is there such a plug in that helps you lock to scale ?

ive got some chords and a solo section someone recorded for me ages ago
the solo sounds out to me, but im not sure what notes to move where as im not sure what scale it should be following

i think the chords are in F#

does any plug in analyse your chords so you can tell what key they were recorded in ? and then you can use the correct scale for solos ??

melodyne maybe ? or is this more for vocals ??

any help would be much appreciated as always
ta lee

i can email you a clip of the chord and solo, i would like to be able to do this myself really thats why i ask about a plug in to aid me

ckatrun411 · Post by **ckatrun411** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 3:11 pm

ear training, music theory, years of practice.... f**k that!!! lets make music where the vst's do everything, and all the music on earth becomes as dead and useless as everything else...

sincerely,

The myspace generation...

nuffink · Post by **nuffink** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 3:13 pm

ckatrun411 wrote:ear training, music theory, years of practice...

You've done all that, have you?

ckatrun411 · Post by **ckatrun411** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 3:20 pm

y r u a r o b o t

leejohnson222 · Post by **leejohnson222** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 3:27 pm

Woh woh woh, hold ya fukin horses now,

im having piano lessons every week the past year thanks, but this is a little
beyond me, thought i might get a little help from people who know more than me, obviously not,

great attitude to forums, well better contact KVR tell to close this down,
as every fuker is classically trained now and if they are not they dont deserve to have any help on here

sorry i wasted everyone time here,

ckatrun411 · Post by **ckatrun411** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 3:33 pm

I didn't say anything about classical training.

tboulette · Post by **tboulette** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 3:34 pm

You didn't waste everybody's time -- don't let these guys knock you around. (Most folks are nice around here, and maybe your question just caught someone on a bad day.)

Anyway, based on your question, it's clear you need to start with some basics. There's no "plug in" that's going to tell you what scales work over what chords and progressions. We need some more information though in order to point you in the right direction.

Why don't you post the chord progression and we'll have a look?

funkychickendance · Post by **funkychickendance** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 3:43 pm

This is actually a pretty good question, and i'd be interested in hearing of any software that helps us think about choices of what notes belong where in music composed chordally (as so many riff-based guitar numbers are).

Right now, i take the idiot approaches: (a) just thrash away till it sounds right (b) take notice of the notes of the chord in question, and where it's going next, or (c) grab some inspiration from the vocal line or some other part, and then try to find a mode/scale that follows the trail of breadcrumbs. Sometimes, that's much easier than it sounds. Other times, it's a bitch.

If i were a clever fellow, i would know WTF i am discovering in this process...e.g., when they interview people like Steve Vai, you hear Oh, i was playing an Eb myxolydian and resolved it to Bb Dorian or some such poop, but to the rest of us the explanation isn't an explanation, it might as well be in Swahili. Any software that could illuminate the correct notes -- or even explain what the hell it is that i've done -- would make me happy. Like RTFM, learn some theory is not a great answer.

//fnx

nuffink · Post by **nuffink** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 3:57 pm

funkychickendance wrote:This is actually a pretty good question, and i'd be interested in hearing of any software that helps us think about choices of what notes belong where in music composed chordally (as so many riff-based guitar numbers are).

Right now, i take the idiot approaches: (a) just thrash away till it sounds right (b) take notice of the notes of the chord in question, and where it's going next, or (c) grab some inspiration from the vocal line or some other part, and then try to find a mode/scale that follows the trail of breadcrumbs. Sometimes, that's much easier than it sounds. Other times, it's a bitch.

Avoid stressing any note which forms a minor ninth interval (that effectively means a semitone up) with any of the chord notes and you're playing jaaaaaathh

To the op. Sorry, can't help. Maybe the new Melodye?

tboulette · Post by **tboulette** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 4:00 pm

funkychickendance wrote:This is actually a pretty good question, and i'd be interested in hearing of any software that helps us think about choices of what notes belong where in music composed chordally (as so many riff-based guitar numbers are).

Right now, i take the idiot approaches: (a) just thrash away till it sounds right (b) take notice of the notes of the chord in question, and where it's going next, or (c) grab some inspiration from the vocal line or some other part, and then try to find a mode/scale that follows the trail of breadcrumbs. Sometimes, that's much easier than it sounds. Other times, it's a bitch.

If i were a clever fellow, i would know WTF i am discovering in this process...e.g., when they interview people like Steve Vai, you hear Oh, i was playing an Eb myxolydian and resolved it to Bb Dorian or some such poop, but to the rest of us the explanation isn't an explanation, it might as well be in Swahili. Any software that could illuminate the correct notes -- or even explain what the hell it is that i've done -- would make me happy. Like RTFM, learn some theory is not a great answer.

//fnx

I think I understand where you're coming from, but I know of no way to avoid learning this stuff. (Plus, the process of learning it opens up your ears to really making music, which IMO is critical.)

You're not going to understand what Steve Vai or the jazz guys are talking about overnight, but the basics are pretty simple, particularly in rock music and other basic styles. But even then, there can be more than one right answer in any given situation.

Taking the OP's question, let's take an F# chord (and let's assume F# major). The F# major chord contains the notes (sometimes we say it's "spelled") F#, A#, C#. At the most basic level, ANY scale using those notes will "work" over the F# major chord, although for sure some of them are going to sound pretty damn weird if you're playing a folk tune or something.

But to start simply, there is one obvious choice for an F# major chord: the F# major scale. That scale contains the notes F#, G#, A#, B, C#, D#, and E#. (Aside: we use E# rather than F for the last note to avoid confusion with the F# note, and to make clear that they are fundamentally different notes of the scale rather than one being an alteration of the other).

So, the F# scale has our key notes in it, and it will sound just fine (if not particularly exciting) over an F# major chord.

Another common choice would be the F# major pentatonic scale: F#, G#, A#, C#, D#. Try them both over an F# major chord and you'll see that this is a subset of the first scale.

For a different flavor, you could also try the C# major scale (also known as the F# lydian scale): C# D# E# F# G# A# B# (aside: same deal here with B# instead of C). This scale also contains the notes F#, A#, and C#. In fact, it's the same as the F# major scale except for one note: B# instead of B. Try that, and you see that it's got quite a different sound, though.

There's LOTS, LOTS more ways to play over F#. That's one of the problems with the idea of a computer program of some kind telling you what to do, because in addition to the chords, you'd also need to know what style (jazz guys, for instance, might play all sorts of different things than a rock or folk guy might play), and even then there's virtually always more than one scale that works over a given chord.

The same kind of way of thinking applies to an F#minor chord, BTW. That's spelled F#, A, C#. Try an F# minor scale (same notes as in A# major), or an E major scale (which is the same notes as what's called F# dorian mode -- cool sound over a minor chord).

No way to avoid learning at least a little theory, I'm afraid. I hope this mini-primer helps get you started.

ckatrun411 · Post by **ckatrun411** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 4:06 pm

the thing is, a melody can be harmonized in many different ways, and vise versa, and knowing what chords and scales go together, is imho, a very small part of the equation, ideally it is the organization of those notes that is going to be " the musical piece. " any basic book on theory is going to give a run down on what chords and scales work together. I mean, a fast reader with a photographic memory is going to pick all this up within a week. So, at the end of the day, I think we are better off trying to evaluate our emotions, and letting our music be a reflection of that. And theory, and software is not going to help to achieve that....

btw leejohnson222, tboulette is spot on... I am having a bad day until, I wake up on an island in the bahamas, on an estate of rum, sand and pussy....

however, just post the chords you are working with, and you can totally find some advice on what scales would fit nicely.

and it would be so much better, than relying on a " Submit Quick Melody "

( edit )

at tboulette, I didn't see you posted again, till after I made this post... I think you gave a wicked primer mate. Cheers for that

tboulette · Post by **tboulette** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 4:12 pm

ckatrun411 wrote:at tboulette, I didn't see you posted again, till after I made this post... I think you gave a wicked primer mate. Cheers for that

Thanks! Get yerself some o' that rum, and, er, the other stuff....

asbfly · Post by **asbfly** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 4:13 pm

tboulette, nice post. Much more intelligent and informative than a certain other one that tried to sound smart.

buscemi · Post by **buscemi** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 4:14 pm

Like others had said, it isn't a bad question but I have to respectfully disagree that "learn some theory" isn't a good answer. At least PART of a good answer. What harm can come of learning a little bit about what some plugin may end up helping you with? Isn't knowing a bit about compression helpful even when you have plugins that assist you with it? Or knowing a bit about programming sounds on that wicked synth might be slightly helpful even if you only use presets or tweak a little bit?

For starters, just do what others suggest - post something for those of us who have spent quite a lot of time learning theory to help you with and when you get some answers you'll "learn some theory" if you pay attention even just a little bit to boot.

tapper mike · Post by **tapper mike** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 4:26 pm

When your playing a lead over a chord sequence.

What is the key of the song? The chord progresson should tell you that.

You have two options play the key of the song based on the chord progresson.
Play modally scale tones based on the chord you are playing off of.

You see chords
Am G F
The key would then be.. C or Am
Am pentatonic works well. When you play A- pentatonic over the G Major Chord you have slight dissonance (thoe notes stand out more) That's okay because it won't be there forever it's going to another chord. When you play over the F chord you can add the F natural to the am pentatonic and it will make sense and feel sound like an issue has been worked out.

Modal
Modal means changes with the chord. Your playing over an a minor chord you play an a minor mode, new chord, new mode. Your modes don't have to match the song key just the chord your playing over at the time. Modal has a tendency to sound same/same. Which is why some people use key tonal so there is dissonance and consonance. Listen to stairway to heaven very begining.
Lots of disonnance based on the harmonic value till you reach the F Chord.

People often read the word musical resolution. A resolution can only be reached if there was an original conflict. The popularity of the minor blues scale is the b5 note the b5 is a tension note that calls to be resolved.

what scale for the solo based on chord progression