Bulgarian Bagpipes; loops and samples?

[ughnonumus]

I just met up with this one guy (from a another Lodge) at a *smoker. He's Bulgarian and has played the bagpipes for over 40 years. In fact, he's fourth generation and owns quite a few older rare instruments. Besides making his own - custom to the hilt - he has played with quite a few international stars.

So, I proposed that we might work on a few sample sets in the future. He's very interested in this. So, I'm just wonderin' what kind of interest there might be in the bagpipe arena. FYI: I don't play this instrument and do not know a lot about them. However, I wouldn't mind helping him share his art (i.e. playing; sampling rare instruments) with others.

Whadayathink?

* a smoker is a congregation of different Lodges...like a potlock; drink the finest Scotch and smoke the finest cigars; a good time is had by all

[geoffrey]

I say hell yes to this. Is a Bulgarian bagpipe like Scottish or Uillean pipes?
G.

[stephenpaulharper]

Go for it - a great idea. What format are you thinking?

Cheers.

Steve

[ughnonumus]

I say hell yes to this. Is a Bulgarian bagpipe like Scottish or Uillean pipes?
G.

Honestly, I don't know...will find out.

I can say that the creator is extremely passionate about the pipes; has quite a few sets; and knows how to gut the cow.

[ughnonumus]

Go for it - a great idea. What format are you thinking?

Cheers.

Steve

Right now, I'm making considerations.

The real work, of course, will be setting up, etc... The artist has the pipes and can play. In fact, he wasn't thinking in terms of samples/loops, until I mentioned this to him today. So, the art(ist) is there...just have to capture it and make it all worthy, if ya know what I mean? At this junction, I'd like to be able to put out some feelers, so I can generate some excitement for him on his end, as well.

I'm sure that the authenticity and uniqueness of his instruments are a big plus. In addition, he's been playing since he was eight years old...no amateur.

Feel free to make requests and pose ideas in this thread. The goal is to create a set of authentic samples from some extremely rare instruments; capture some of his playing in some very usable loops.

[tuzemec]

I say hell yes to this. Is a Bulgarian bagpipe like Scottish or Uillean pipes?
G.

Yep, it's close. And different

Here's some examples that I found:

Two of the most popular pieces:






And that's some australian guy playing different kinds of gaida:

[radioegg]

Yes! Please do it! A bagpipe vst would be GREAT. I just tried Bagpipes from Soundbytes, I wanted to use pipes on a song, but I did not like it very much, to synthetic to my taste, so I dropped the idea, and went for accordion instead. But in my head, I can still hear that tune with bagpipes.

How long do you think you will need for development for this? If you need betatesters, I'd like to sign up right now...

[ughnonumus]

Yes! Please do it! A bagpipe vst would be GREAT. I just tried Bagpipes from Soundbytes, I wanted to use pipes on a song, but I did not like it very much, to synthetic to my taste, so I dropped the idea, and went for accordion instead. But in my head, I can still hear that tune with bagpipes.

How long do you think you will need for development for this? If you need betatesters, I'd like to sign up right now...

I'll be able to provide more info this week and will continue to update this thread. In addition, I'll see if I can get some pics to throw up and maybe some clips of his playing.

Please bare in mind that his instruments are very rare...handed down from generations. In addition, he builds his own. These should certainly be a unique addition to the world of samples. I believe he's got some customer sets (of pipes) that have electronic mods, as well.

I'll ring him up at the beginning of this week to see what the forecast is like. At this junction, I can't put a time frame on anything. However, this is doable and we sync up personally on a semi-regular basis. So it's a matter of outlining the project and finishing it off.

[Spitfire31]

Bulgarian bagpipes sounds like a great idea. I love bagpipes and adding the Bulgarian taste would certainly be more than welcome. The following thought are from the perspective of a potential customer...

I'd humbly suggest that making useable loops (not to speak of a worthwhile VSTi!) requires a deep understanding of the instrument, apart from recording and editing proficiency.

For a state of the art VSTi, the amount of work and dedication is, of course, much higher. Just as an example, consider the awesome realtime playability of the highland pipes in BelaD Media's Anthology: Celtic Wind. Also check out Soniccouture's Hang Drum and Scarbee's Black Bass series of instruments to get an idea of the potential of advanced scripting in a sample-based instrument.

For anything requiring scripting, NI Kontakt 2 (3) is THE format to aim for. But the scripting engine is deep and you'd need to feel at home with programming, or persuade some accomplished programmer for the job.

What I basically mean is that you'll need to plan for your intended format already at the recording stage. The project can easily become very complicated; maybe it's best to shoot for a simple Soundfont at first, or something similar? Kind of like a pilot project, where you can get limited but useable results reasonably quickly?

Anyway, even if you'd go for a Soundfont format, please check that it loads properly in Kontakt (PC and Mac), since K2 is so ubiquitous and widely used.

Also, it would probably make sense to have two versions of the loops/instrument - one with conventional harmonic tuning and one with the original tuning (which I assume is not exactly standard equal temperament).

Good luck!

FWIW,

Joey

[ughnonumus]

Bulgarian bagpipes sounds like a great idea. I love bagpipes and adding the Bulgarian taste would certainly be more than welcome. The following thought are from the perspective of a potential customer...

I'd humbly suggest that making useable loops (not to speak of a worthwhile VSTi!) requires a deep understanding of the instrument, apart from recording and editing proficiency.

For a state of the art VSTi, the amount of work and dedication is, of course, much higher. Just as an example, consider the awesome realtime playability of the highland pipes in BelaD Media's Anthology: Celtic Wind. Also check out Soniccouture's Hang Drum and Scarbee's Black Bass series of instruments to get an idea of the potential of advanced scripting in a sample-based instrument.

For anything requiring scripting, NI Kontakt 2 (3) is THE format to aim for. But the scripting engine is deep and you'd need to feel at home with programming, or persuade some accomplished programmer for the job.

What I basically mean is that you'll need to plan for your intended format already at the recording stage. The project can easily become very complicated; maybe it's best to shoot for a simple Soundfont at first, or something similar? Kind of like a pilot project, where you can get limited but useable results reasonably quickly?

Anyway, even if you'd go for a Soundfont format, please check that it loads properly in Kontakt (PC and Mac), since K2 is so ubiquitous and widely used.

Also, it would probably make sense to have two versions of the loops/instrument - one with conventional harmonic tuning and one with the original tuning (which I assume is not exactly standard equal temperament).

Good luck!

FWIW,

Joey

Joey- I appreciate the post!

This is a labour of love that might have some upside, simply put. Let's face it, not everyone is looking for bagpipe samples, so it's not about money. However, the instruments are, in fact, worthy of sampling- not to mention the playing. So, this project should be worth the effort(s).

I am a seasoned dev, but don't know how far I want to take this project. The ideal of creating useful samples alone is the carrot, so far. I was thinking K2/3 to start and stick a useful UI on the front. A soundfont might be a great fall back plan. Thanks, for that bit.

So, our passion to make this right is what's driving us, simply put. My technical background should be sufficient for this undertaking.

Once again, I'll post up on this thread as this unfolds. I should have some instrument details early this week.

[LXNDR1]

the idea is dope
when i needed one, i found out there were just a handful of free bagpipes SF2 on the Web and only a few which were actually good. Not saying this one should be free, although it's of course welcome.

Guess limiting such sample set to Kontakt is unfair towards and discriminating against other samplers users, not everyone owns it, not everyone would like to
So it'd be appropriate to prepare the set in several popular and most democratic formats, if ever

[Spitfire31]

Guess limiting such sample set to Kontakt is unfair towards and discriminating against other samplers users, not everyone owns it, not everyone would like to
So it'd be appropriate to prepare the set in several popular and most democratic formats, if ever

Agreed completely. Also, designing a state of the art scripted instrument for Kontakt is a major undertaking.

A soundfont would be a great start. However, being on Mac with K2 as my sampler, I've noted that not all soundfonts are created equal. Most can be converted without hitch by K2, but some refuse to play.

So, I think it would be a good idea to just check that a potential Bulgarian bagpipe soundfont plays nice with Kontakt (PC and Mac).

Best,

Joey

[Lotuzia]

afaik almost all bulgarian folk music is related to assymetric bars like 7/8, 9/8, 11/8 aso.

So that loops could be an awsome idea but I'm really not sure you can make a hit with some stuff like that.

But

Making playable sample packs of these instruments, though adressing a niche market, could be great for film scoring, world, ambiant musicians aso.

This is the direction I'd take if I were to build such a project.

You'll need some basic articulations to make it work, very similar in nature to brass and flutes instruments + Crescendos/Decrescendos

Hope this helps.

Good luck with your project

LtZ

[geoffrey]

Personally, odd time signatures seem to be lacking in today's sample market. Also, you could probably tweak them to be the normal western faves of 2/4 or 4/4, etc,
Cheers,
Geoff

[Lotuzia]

Personally, odd time signatures seem to be lacking in today's sample market. Also, you could probably tweak them to be the normal western faves of 2/4 or 4/4, etc,
Cheers,
Geoff

I do agree ! there's only 4/4 and C available. Even straight ternary 4/4 is difficult to find.

But beginning an odd time library with Bulgarian bagpipes might be a bit risky nevertheless

Anyway fine to see some people are looking for something else too.

LtZ