LA2A, Fairchild, 1176LN, Neve 1093, ... plug in, plug away

[brok landers]

ahhh, by clear you mean that you can make the voice "stand out" in a mix ... well, yes, that it can do, certainly ...

[mangel1234]

A few suggestions and opinions that I hope are helpful.

First of all, there are emulations of the vintage compressors, and then there are just plain useful compressors.
I think these serve two important tasks and only sometimes overlap.

For a full feature set of excellent user tools to mix in your DAW without wishing you could go outboard for anything substantial, you need a good track comp, good track limiter, good bus comp and limiter, good master limiter, and if you can find your favorite taste of 'character' comps for each of these, then that can help add your special personality to every mixing situation.

Where vintage emu and just plain useful overlap, is when the vintage is so important because of how useful it is, and not just 'how accurate is it to the original'.

So, personally, I would see how far some of the freebies get you before laying down $ on the current options.

The blockfish is a nice character comp that can squish and squash, clamp down or round out, with a little vca and a little optical, with control over bias under the hood. The 'modern' series that Antress has done has many weak links in emulating, but some extremely useful tracking-scenario comps, and the modern comp is a good choice for character- but tight sounding compression (make sure you check your frequency results for accuracy if using).

I highly recommend spending some more time with T-Racks. There are many that hate it passionately, and many that repeatedly call it a toy, and I have to disagree. First, the marketing killed it for me for the first 4 years bc it was silly: basically "since u can do everything else in PT, we've figured out mastering for you, so you don't have to. Everything that was ever great about vintage mastering gear is now in a little yellow pill." Ridiculous. But, it is an excellent tool, the engineering behind the outcome is excellent, and you just have to work with it to get a feel for what it can do. Most people that get beyond the hype, silly look and claims, seem to get pleasantly awesome results with "that" sound. It absolutely can do classic compression tasks with a lot of personality, and is an excellent quality multiband for getting slightly more punch from a mix. The eq is very nice, and soft saturation has about a 5 dB window where it works excellent.

But, T-Racks is a stupid name, the marketing is foolish and makes too many promises, and the look makes it seem like a toy and it isn't. It does not emulate an 1176 or an accurate vari-mu or La2a, but what it does do in those settings is very much useful to learn and use. I recommend taking a mix with big drums and guitars and listen to what various comp changes do to the sound. Then the same for individual drum loops, and again on some more ballad oriented material. You may love certain effects for individual instruments like vocals and acoustic guitar. Just experiement.

UAD, obviously, is the top of the list for 1176 and La2a, not to mention LA3, Neve33609, Fairchild, Neve88Series, and now the DBX early bus vca!

Back to free... Register with Acustica Audio, get Nebula Free. Get to know the compressors (and enjoy crazy free eq as well). More is coming SOON, and it will be worth upgrading to Neb3 commercial. The main tech improvements for compression are coming in a few months, but for now it is still much better than what I have heard from LiquidMix.

OK, then there is Duende and Waves for the SSL sound. If you want that quick, bright, snappy SSL group compression then it's hard to beat having the actual "G" series for so little $. I don't own it, but I know SSL just placed the exact same technology in a different cpu scenario to use with computer, so no doubt on their quality compared to the real thing.

LiquidMix is an excellent deal for price, and about to cost less for fewer channel version, but I can easily and audibly tell the difference in the real comps and LiquidMix presets. BManic has written a TON on compressors here, and his comments relate well to what is wrong with the LM sounds I heard, in that the attack, speed of release, and resulting transients have a digital feel, that cannot round out the wack- of transient correctly and the difference is noticeable in LM.

So, yes UAD for what it does best, until Nebula does it better. Keep eyes peeled for some useful things in Nebula that will address scenarios where some classic items are best suited.

[Compyfox]

Still doesn't answer my initial question though.

I have/own certain of those mentioned plugins and I tested the one or another. The thing that grinds my nerves, is that it's always "emulation of this, emulation of that", but nobody actually says what it is, not to mention that it's mostly "Listen and you'll know what these features do".

I mean... true. Let's look at URS, it's EQ is built after some of the old analog mixers, though don't ask me what name. Then the 1975 and 1980 comp... so are they Pultec, are they SSL, are they Fairchild (it DOES have some Fairchild presets), is it 1176 or is it just a wild stab in the dark?


Personally I don't need recommendations, I just want to know what they are. Something along the lines of:
Waves SSL Channelstrip - SSL Channelstrip from 19-shootme
GearBox Compressor Module - LA-2A Emulation (even though people say it sucks)
GearBox Vintage PreAmp - Neve Channelstrip simulation
etc, ...


This is where the compressor people can chime in and share their experience, same goes for the EQ emulations from Sonalksis, URS and even Waves. Like I said... I'm not looking for alternatives in terms of "new toys" or "freeware" - not this time. I just want to know what's out there and what is actually what, to stop the constant "OMG this is this an emulation of this'n that?!" memme. That's all.

So if anybody can sum that all up in a list or something, that'd be greatly appreciated.



*note to self: I definitely need to dig out that old LMC Plugin again, dunno where I put it, but it was indeed cool for some stuff*

[jens]

I just want to know what they are. Something along the lines of:
Waves SSL Channelstrip - SSL Channelstrip from 19-shootme
GearBox Compressor Module - LA-2A Emulation (even though people say it sucks)
GearBox Vintage PreAmp - Neve Channelstrip simulation
etc, ...

ok., you want to know - but I can only guess that most others are as bored of name-dropping as I am - personally I don't give a rat's arse what or what not a plugin attempts to emulate as long as it sounds good. It won't make your mixes even just slightly better if you know what vintage gear the programmer wanked off to while he dreamt up the code.

So good luck in finding answers which will really satisfy your curiosity.

[ionized]

mangel1234 - great post. OK, so it didn't answer compy's question but there was a lot of good info there. Thanks!

[vieris]

Yes, I know indeed URS, even though I don't own/use those plugins, afaik it is mostly an emulation of the 1176N.

Not true being the URS/Compressor geek around here let me clear this up..

URS 1970 = Feed-back neve sounding
URS 1980 = Feed-back SSL sounding
URS 1975 = Feed-Forward DBX sounding punchy as hell a must for drums.(I own)
URS CSP = Full channel strip with pulltec, API, Neve, & SSl eq's, input stage emulations (this is key), & the most versatile native compressor to date. It is Feed-Forward compressor based & has presets that model every classic compressor that you can think of including modern ones like the distressor.
How it works.
It has selectable input stages that effect the detection circuit. (Tubes, consoles, transformers, ect.) It has selectable auto release function to match leveling amps like the LA-2a's & 3a's, optos , and many others.
I never use the presets i build my own. That is the true power of this thing. I can take the input stage of a API, the attack/release times & knee of a 1176. Whatever i want.

URS expects you to know what your doing. They don't dumb down there products for ease of use. They emulate classic gear. If you don't know how it worked to begin with you can easily be dumb founded by the terminology. Or lack of terminology i should say.

I recommend learning what makes compressors different 1st.
Learn why Feed-forward is punchy, Why Feed-Back is more colored, Why Opto's are smooth, FFT & VCA methods.
FYI
The compressors i just released can show you many of these differences.
You can hear 1st hand what the differences a Feed-back & a Feed-forward will do with the exact same components. Just different signal flows for the detection circuits. Also you can emulate many inputs stages of classic comps with the filters & Drive. This is the main factor why compressors sound as they do.

[bermudagold]

and sounds like shit, like the original one in the consoles did ...

exactly....and the waves SSL emulation sounds like shit to me as well....i think people really get caught up in the name....but like you said taste differs.

[Uncle E]

exactly....and the waves SSL emulation sounds like shit to me as well....i think people really get caught up in the name....but like you said taste differs.

The SSL and Neve plug-ins from Waves aren't too good, at least compared to the real SSL and UAD-1 versions. I've heard great things about the Waves API Collection, though, with many people saying the 2500 is the best native buss compressor around.

The Stillwell Audio Major Tom is based on the DBX 160VU (not as good as the UAD-1 VCA VU). The Stillwell Event Horizon is the one I'm personally interest in, mainly for the fact that it doesn't seem to be based on any traditional compression techniques.

[bermudagold]

exactly....and the waves SSL emulation sounds like shit to me as well....i think people really get caught up in the name....but like you said taste differs.

The SSL and Neve plug-ins from Waves aren't too good, at least compared to the real SSL and UAD-1 versions. I've heard great things about the Waves API Collection, though, with many people saying the 2500 is the best native buss compressor around.

The Stillwell Audio Major Tom is based on the DBX 160VU (not as good as the UAD-1 VCA VU). The Stillwell Event Horizon is the one I'm personally interest in, mainly for the fact that it doesn't seem to be based on any traditional compression techniques.

the api bundle was much more useable to me than the ssl bundle...and sounded better, but was nothin that blew me away.....but then i spent more time with the eqs than the compressors....what is the neve emu?....v-series?....i was actually presently surprised by them....typical hi freq roll off, hissing air, and distortion....but sweet and more pleasant than most.....but there is plenty in native land that are comparable to all three series IMO...even freeware

[Compyfox]

personally I don't give a rat's arse what or what not a plugin attempts to emulate as long as it sounds good. It won't make your mixes even just slightly better if you know what vintage gear the programmer wanked off to while he dreamt up the code.

Maybe not, but I am one of those who then know at least, what these things were aimed at. So if the manual is wonky (which is clearly the case in terms of T-RackS), I can go and read myself into it's hardware counterpart.

If you're not interested, I'm cool with that, but others definitely might be. So no need to flame, really.

Not true being the URS/Compressor geek around here let me clear this up..

URS 1970 = Feed-back neve sounding
URS 1980 = Feed-back SSL sounding
URS 1975 = Feed-Forward DBX sounding punchy as hell a must for drums.(I own)
URS CSP = Full channel strip with pulltec, API, Neve, & SSl eq's, input stage emulations (this is key), & the most versatile native compressor to date.

Now this is what I call short but very informative.

I recommend learning what makes compressors different 1st.
Learn why Feed-forward is punchy, Why Feed-Back is more colored, Why Opto's are smooth, FFT & VCA methods.

This is definitely a start in terms of background info and some interesting bedtime reading parallel to this thread, and I'll definitely do that. But for now, I'd just like to know what's actually what.

The compressors i just released can show you many of these differences.

I'll definitely check out your plugins, vieris (are they SE made?), since I mostly used VCR Compressors like Kjaerhus up until now and sometimes the Waves Renaissance at the academy.



So yeah, vieris started this fairly well, Uncle E continued that, and there was ton of general info from mangel1234. So why not continue that?

So far it was (in the plugin realm, also according to manuals and homepage overviews):
GearBox VST Comp = modeled after the LA-2A tube compressor
GearBox VST PreAmp American Classic = based on an API512 MicPre and API550b EQ housed in an API Lunchbox 500.6-B
GearBox VST PreAmp Vintage U.K. = based on the classic Neve 1073 pre-amp
GearBox VST PreAmp Vintage = inspired by analog tape models, lacking clear 8kHz and above
GearBox VST Stompbox Vetta Comp = taken from the Vetta II Line 6 guitar amplifier. Has a fixed ratio (2.35:1) with threshold (SENS knob) adjustable from -9dB to -56dB and up to 12dB of gain available at the LEVEL knob.
Leftover Lasagne Pushtec 5+1 = based upon Pultec EQs
Solid State Logic LMC-1 = Listen Mic Compressor, SSL pult custom built
URS 1970 = Feed-back neve sounding
URS 1980 = Feed-back SSL sounding
URS 1975 = Feed-Forward DBX sounding
URS CSP = Full channel strip with pulltec, API, Neve, & SSl eq's
Stillwell Audio Major Tom = based upon DBX 160VU
Stillwell Audio 1973 = tribiute to Neve 1073
Waves API 550A 3-Band Equalizer = modeled on API's late 1960's legend
Waves API the 550B 4-Band Equalizer = same as the hardware (according to Waves)
Waves API 560 Graphic Equalizer = based on API's 1967 classic
Waves API 2500 Stereo Compressor = same as the hardware (according to Waves)
Waves SSL E-Channel = SSL 4000 Channel strip
Waves SSL G-Master Buss Compressor = SL4000 G console
Waves SSL G-Equalizer = SSL G series EQ292
Waves V-Series V-Comp = Vintage 2254 compressor
Waves V-Series V-EQ3 = 1073 and 1066 EQ mixed together as one
Waves V-Series V-EQ4 = sought after 1081

DSP Solutions (General: UAD, ProTools HD):
UAD Cards = licensed LA-2A, 1176, Pultec, etc
Focusrite Liquid Channel = several EQs and Compressors from Focusrite (based upon an impulse engine)

Impulse Response based systems:
AcousticAudio Nebula = tons of "emulations" with encrypted titles
TriTone Digital Colour Tone = several (mic) preamps


Then there's still Sonalksis (the SV series), URS (the EQs), Sonnox, PSP Audioware, IKM T-RackS, Bombfactory, ... And exots like Eiosis AirEQ, AixCoustic ElectriQ, DigitalFishphones Spitfish/Blockfish and Magix AM|Suite, TbT LA2095, now even vieris new compressors, etc where I'm generally just lost in the dark.

So yeah, I hope we can continue on that.

[ddummer]

So what is the ultimate drum wave reference for checking out a compressor?

(I'm getting tired of listening to the same loop over and over unless it is the one...)

//Daniel

[Per Lichtman]

I found myself searching for the answers to questions like this some time ago myself so I can empathize. One thing to keep in mind, however, is that many VSTs are not modeled after one particular compressor or EQ but are either a new interpretation of old ideas or an amalgamation of several design. For instance, the Sonalksis series is not modeled after any particular pre-existing model or even explicitly any particular manufacturer (even though some of the engineers have a background at AMS Neve).

Many (though not all of) the compressors or EQs that explicitly, or strongly imply, modeling after a particular piece of gear, have already been mentioned in this thread so the rate of response might be slowing down. I'll add that in Nebula the "Boeing 747" implies an Avalon 747 and most presets with "solid" or "state" or "logic" somewhere in the title refer to SSL products and I think the Danish EQ they reference is a Viking. The TriTone Digital plug-ins are often fairly explicit in what they emulate (either in the user interface or manual), such as a GML mastering EQ or an Amek or API EQ, or Avalon LA-2A input stage modeler, etc. I have find they run better on the Macs at the studio than PCs, however.

Also, I have both a UAD-1 and an LM at home. I find that the LM tends to sound brighter than the UAD, though that could partially be a result of the lack of input stage modeling.

[Per Lichtman]

So what is the ultimate drum wave reference for checking out a compressor?

(I'm getting tired of listening to the same loop over and over unless it is the one...)

//Daniel

No clue: let me know if a consensus is reached. I just tend to grab one that bears some resemblance to what I might want in a mix around that particular moment. I guess the frequency range and dynamic range really should reflect what you are looking for. An isolated snare is great for seeing what a compressor does to the body, a hi-hat submix is great for seeing how quickly it reacts to transients and whether it significantly colors the high end, etc., etc.

[brok landers]

GearBox VST Comp = modeled after the LA-2A tube compressor

afaik the original la2a is an fet staged optical processor, no tubes inside ...

[ddummer]

That is the 1176 isn't it?!

//Daniel