What's the point of key?

[AdmiralQuality]

Just on a side note, I think the term "perfect pitch" is appropriate even if you can't tell "440" from "440.00001". I compare it to your sense of sight. I can look at red and green and know that they are red and green, respectively. If you only increased the brightness of the red hue fractionally, I would not be able to detect that. The human eyes have a threshold for that kind of thing. However, that does not mean I can't see perfectly. Likewise with perfect pitch.

Actually your eye can only detect three "pitches" of color. Red, green and blue. Any particular wavelength (frequency/pitch) within the visual spectrum will cause one, or some combination of these receptors to fire. That's why your computer monitor can fake any color out of red green and blue. Your eye doesn't notice all the missing wavelengths.

The ear however is different, you essentially have receptors for every frequency across the auditory spectrum. The cochlea is a little spectroanalyzer in your ear. The ear doesn't sample, rather it resynthesizes.

But yes, "perfect pitch" is a fine term for it, even if you're a few cents off. It's a lot more perfect than most people who can't tell a blue note from a purple one.

[rifftrax]

Another consideration is timbre. Sharp keys tend to have more brilliance and flat keys.

I have no clue where you get this idea from. We're talking about equal temperament scales, right? The whole thing is relative.

Only keyboard instruments and melodic percussion have equal temperment.

Oh. So violins don't?

No, they don't. They are tuned in perfect 5ths and the temperment is dependent on the player.
String player often play notes a little sharp or flat in relationship to equal temperment to accentuate harmonic direction or timbre.

um. right. Actually - that just means they are playing out of tune.

[rifftrax]

It seems we need a short music theory lesson, so here goes.

"Prior to the almost universal adoption of the equal temperament system of tuning where the interval between successive semitones is a constant and the ratio for the octave is set at 2:1, musicians and theorists produced numerous solutions for bending the natural Pythagorean scale to practical use. That this was an impossible task, particularly if one wished to modulate to all the possible major or minor scales, was demonstrated time and again by composers such as Willaert who used their works to demonstrate the shortcomings of any of the temperaments then in use."

http://www.dolmetsch.com/musictheory27.htm

Have you ever heard of all the instruments in an orchestra tuning to a concert pitch? Do you know why? Because they are preparing to all play in equal tempered scales. That would suggest a %110 chance that they are all equal tempered instruments. Naturally, It would be a little more than disastrous if they all chose to play in whatever tuning form they desired. For example - I had a concert "C" trumpet. I could play every single note (in my range ability) that a piano could without the pitch being off. That's called uh...yeah - equal temperament. Same thing with oboes, clarinets, saxophones, blah and blah...I think being in as many bands as I had in the past - I should have at least noticed that much.

[bugs]

It seems we need a short music theory lesson, so here goes.

"Prior to the almost universal adoption of the equal temperament system of tuning where the interval between successive semitones is a constant and the ratio for the octave is set at 2:1, musicians and theorists produced numerous solutions for bending the natural Pythagorean scale to practical use. That this was an impossible task, particularly if one wished to modulate to all the possible major or minor scales, was demonstrated time and again by composers such as Willaert who used their works to demonstrate the shortcomings of any of the temperaments then in use."

http://www.dolmetsch.com/musictheory27.htm

Have you ever heard of all the instruments in an orchestra tuning to a concert pitch? Do you know why? Because they are preparing to all play in equal tempered scales. That would suggest a %110 chance that they are all equal tempered instruments. Naturally, It would be a little more than disastrous if they all chose to play in whatever tuning form they desired. For example - I had a concert "C" trumpet. I could play every single note (in my range ability) that a piano could without the pitch being off. That's called uh...yeah - equal temperament. Same thing with oboes, clarinets, saxophones, blah and blah...I think being in as many bands as I had in the past - I should have at least noticed that much.

Your lack of understand concerning this issue seems to know no bounds, so go ahead, believe what you want.

[rifftrax]

It seems we need a short music theory lesson, so here goes.

"Prior to the almost universal adoption of the equal temperament system of tuning where the interval between successive semitones is a constant and the ratio for the octave is set at 2:1, musicians and theorists produced numerous solutions for bending the natural Pythagorean scale to practical use. That this was an impossible task, particularly if one wished to modulate to all the possible major or minor scales, was demonstrated time and again by composers such as Willaert who used their works to demonstrate the shortcomings of any of the temperaments then in use."

http://www.dolmetsch.com/musictheory27.htm

Have you ever heard of all the instruments in an orchestra tuning to a concert pitch? Do you know why? Because they are preparing to all play in equal tempered scales. That would suggest a %110 chance that they are all equal tempered instruments. Naturally, It would be a little more than disastrous if they all chose to play in whatever tuning form they desired. For example - I had a concert "C" trumpet. I could play every single note (in my range ability) that a piano could without the pitch being off. That's called uh...yeah - equal temperament. Same thing with oboes, clarinets, saxophones, blah and blah...I think being in as many bands as I had in the past - I should have at least noticed that much.

Your lack of understand concerning this issue seems to know no bounds, so go ahead, believe what you want.

You haven't offered much of an idea of what you are talking about. Any instrument can be tuned to any range or key or tuning. But - I'll certainly believe what I've been taught by people who majored in music theory.

[Musicologo]

There are instruments that cannot be tuned, as simple as that. Even equal temperament is an illusion. A guitar cannot be perfect tuned. A piano has to suffer some deviations: in lower registers the guy has to tune "extended octavas" so they sound "well", and in the higher registers he has to put "larger thirds" so they cannot beat each other.

Working with a large orchestra arises all those problems. Of course a very skilled musician is able to play all chromatic notes with his instrument, so a berlin philarmonica for instance, wouldn't have any trouble to play any piece in any key, I believe, but for most of the amateur bands that's not how it works.

The point of a key is to make uniform and possible the playing of a piece. It's easier you write in Bb or Gminor a piece for marching band, because most of the instruments will have few alterations.

And as stated before, some keys will make your work out of range. Supose you create a piece that goes to extreme registers, for instance the G2 in a violin and at same time the G6 (no harmonics). Supose you transpose it down 2 tones. Ok, you can't. because the violin won't go down further the G2, and if you try to pull it up instead, then you won't be able to give that high notes...

[james0tucson]

I was going to comment, but others have covered the "equal temperament is a compromise and a myth" aspect of the problem.

The fact of the matter is, if you play your song in C# minor slowly, and raise it to E minor, and then compare the same song that was played in E minor quickly, you will note some substantial differences.

Since we all have synthesizers and hosts that make that experiment easy, we should try it and see.

[james0tucson]

Right?

Also... "wrong"... human psychoacoustic response is neither linear, nor continuous.

[A.M. Gold]

Haven't read the whole thread, but anyone mentioned absolute (perfect) pitch yet?

[psionic]

Ok so it seems like I'm basically on target then. Good stuff.

Hehe, you're on target if you generalize your understanding so that it fits your purposes. In the ballpark, but not a homerun.

To sum up what others are saying here -- it does matter which key you play in for many circumstances, ranging from natural resonances of instruments to transposing issues to moods/feels of different keys. Try singing the Star Spangled Banner as a baritone bottoming out in E, then try singing in the "same" major scale/key but now just short of an octave up in the key of Eb.... tell me those are "the same."

================================

Anywho, I'm surprised the following hasn't been mentioned yet -- that the Masters a couple centuries ago implicitly understood and "got" the different flavors of different keys. Granted, this one man's attempt at explaining the unspoken code really stinks of superstitious Scholastic self-righteousness and even outright sexism, but the gist is there. G major is just plain "brighter" than Db major, whatever the octave is.

ymmv, esp based on your acuity.

Christian Schubart on characters of key signatures: Ideen zu einer Aesthetik der Tonkunst (1806)

AFFECTIVE KEY CHARACTERISTICS

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


C Major
Completely Pure. Its character is: innocence, simplicity, naïvety, children's talk.

C Minor
Declaration of love and at the same time the lament of unhappy love. All languishing, longing, sighing of the love-sick soul lies in this key.

Db Major
A leering key, degenerating into grief and rapture. It cannot laugh, but it can smile; it cannot howl, but it can at least grimace its crying.--Consequently only unusual characters and feelings can be brought out in this key.

C# Minor
Penitential lamentation, intimate conversation with God, the friend and help-meet of life; sighs of disappointed friendship and love lie in its radius.

D Major
The key of triumph, of Hallejuahs, of war-cries, of victory-rejoicing. Thus, the inviting symphonies, the marches, holiday songs and heaven-rejoicing choruses are set in this key.

D Minor
Melancholy womanliness, the spleen and humours brood.

Eb Major
The key of love, of devotion, of intimate conversation with God.

D# Minor
Feelings of the anxiety of the soul's deepest distress, of brooding despair, of blackest depresssion, of the most gloomy condition of the soul. Every fear, every hesitation of the shuddering heart, breathes out of horrible D# minor. If ghosts could speak, their speech would approximate this key.

E Major
Noisy shouts of joy, laughing pleasure and not yet complete, full delight lies in E Major.

E minor
Naïve, womanly innocent declaration of love, lament without grumbling; sighs accompanied by few tears; this key speaks of the imminent hope of resolving in the pure happiness of C major.

F Major
Complaisance & Calm.

F Minor
Deep depression, funereal lament, groans of misery and longing for the grave.

F# Major
Triumph over difficulty, free sigh of relief utered when hurdles are surmounted; echo of a soul which has fiercely struggled and finally conquered lies in all uses of this key.

F# Minor
A gloomy key: it tugs at passion as a dog biting a dress. Resentment and discontent are its language.

G Major
Everything rustic, idyllic and lyrical, every calm and satisfied passion, every tender gratitude for true friendship and faithful love,--in a word every gentle and peaceful emotion of the heart is correctly expressed by this key.

G Minor
Discontent, uneasiness, worry about a failed scheme; bad-tempered gnashing of teeth; in a word: resentment and dislike.

Ab Major
Key of the grave. Death, grave, putrefaction, judgment, eternity lie in its radius.

Ab Minor
Grumbler, heart squeezed until it suffocates; wailing lament, difficult struggle; in a word, the color of this key is everything struggling with difficulty.

A Major
This key includes declarations of innocent love, satisfaction with one's state of affairs; hope of seeing one's beloved again when parting; youthful cheerfulness and trust in God.

A minor
Pious womanliness and tenderness of character.

Bb Major
Cheerful love, clear conscience, hope aspiration for a better world.

Bb minor
A quaint creature, often dressed in the garment of night. It is somewhat surly and very seldom takes on a pleasant countenance. Mocking God and the world; discontented with itself and with everything; preparation for suicide sounds in this key.

B Major
Strongly coloured, announcing wild passions, composed from the most glaring coulors. Anger, rage, jealousy, fury, despair and every burden of the heart lies in its sphere.

B Minor
This is as it were the key of patience, of calm awaiting ones's fate and of submission to divine dispensation.

[tapper mike]

^Interesting.

I disagree yet interesting.

Metre and timbre have more to do with emotive values of a piece then key.
Stevie Ray Vaughn and countless other guitarists tune to Eb then play standards without transposing the fretboard. The pitch change does not affect the emotive quality of the piece.

Jazz performers often transpose standards to different keys for different reasons. Often times to make it easier on the vocalist. The key changes the song remains the same.

[psionic]

Aye, there are many musical factors than determine or help persuade the audience to feel a certain emotion. Key, timbre, meter, complexity, resolution, volume, delivery (phrasing or virtuoso vs. mechanical)...

A typical jazz trio with a saxophonist ripping away hyper-bebop style on a 50's standard very easily changes keys and it sounds the same. All the same, all "out there" to the untrained ear (the majority?). Well, that may be because he is not playing "one" key, but constantly flipping thru many keys and modalities in any given 15 second period.

If I step up to a piano, and for 10 seconds noodle out a disjunct and random set of chromatic notes, 12-tone style, with about 60% of it white notes, is it gonna sound much different emotionally if I kept the same rhythmic approach but instead banged out a set of chaotic and random notes, but this time use 60% black vs white notes? I think not. This is because the original concept of "key" has been changed so much to the point that we're not even referring to the same thing anymore.

To be fair, a novice walking into a concert hall to hear piano sonatas for the first time is not going to experience the subtlety and nuance of emotion that a trained pianist actively listens for and appreciates, and therefore participates in. So much of emotional interpretation is open to your personal background and tradition, and also is subject to suggestion, to social pressure, and even to the chemical state you're in. Not to mention that allowing (or disallowing) yourself a certain state of mind will most defintely affect your emotional interpretation. Positively, negatively, or otherwise.

I doubt there is a science that says "C major is absolutely and proven to be a happy, or more specifically, an elated key." But with the proper guidelines, frame of mind, and experience, a careful composer should be able to write a piece that sounds "naively happy" in C. Then slipping up a half-step to the key of Db major, and using musical elements like tensions, ostinatos, and darker instruments, take the same basic theme from C and make it sound not very "happy or elated" at all.

Of course, the equally skilled but devious composer could labor to produce an angry and sad work in the key of C major. But I have a hunch it's easier to not swim upstream, and evoke happiness in C, and miserableness in Ab minor, than the other way around.