Mixed impressions on u-he Zebra

[pandashake]

Cast a line, see what happens...

I think it's more psychoacoustic than anything else.

[TiUser]

Since you're a TI-user maybe you should check the "Viral - ..." sounds in "9 Clowns" against the similar named "HS - ..." sounds of the Virus C bank in the TI. At same level (!) these should show the relatively minimal differences, apart from the slightly different implemented features such as portamento and detune.

Thanks, that's a good idea. This will keep me busy for a while...

I have to admit I didn't licence Zebra yet... I hope it is possible to do the check with the demo as well. I am a bit picky about VSTi's and I only want to go for a few well selected outstanding ones... Zebra attracted my attention but I am still not quite sure.

Howard is one of my favourite sound designers with the virus too, really a lot of fabulous patches and if he says he instantly liked Zebra there must be something wrong with my experience... On the other hand I sometimes think he can do even great sounds from a third class synth just like a wizard...

[brok landers]

Howard is one of my favourite sound designers with the virus too, really a lot of fabulous patches and if he says he instantly liked Zebra there must be something wrong with my experience...

you just nailed it ...
on a more general side though:
you shouldn't seek a synth to replace another, you should check for what it actually _can_ do, which in zebra there's a lot (it's modular, so you decide), in fact often more than what a virus could do ... and, just for the record, i'm doing mostly sounddesign for my living (along with mixing and mastering), so i'm _very_ picky about sound, and all i can say is, that zebra's basic sound is very high quality, no doubt comparable to the quality of a virus (was a betatester since version 0.8, still got a virus a and a virus b, and still like them) ...
and michaels, howards and beej's patches for zebra are just of highest possible quality, too ...
all in a sentence:
zebra is the least synth to worry about buying or not ... just get it, end of the story ...

[TiUser]

I am not about to replace anything but the other way round, I want something different... Usually the fancy impression with the cheap speakers always worked, if something attracted my attention when listening to them it was great on better speakers... That's the point that confuses me. Maybe it's something psychoacustical, I don't know...

[mkastrup]

Hmm thats odd because i have a really hard time hearing other VST coming up with the clear and direct sound as in this demo for Zebra:

http://www.zebrasynth.com/songs/Zebra_Oldskool.mp3

This demo was created using Zebra only when i tested my new Yamaha HS 50M speakers. Nothing was added, not even a limiter, its straight out of Zebra.

/Michael

Brilliant!
Great job!
Many good ideas in that medley.
I particulary like some of your chordchanges and the stratlike arpeggios.

Thx Dr.Wu The medley was made for testing my monitors in december. Each part plays a certain role in the testing of frequency balance. The test explained can be found here:

http://xsynth.blogspot.com/2007/12/zebr ... -test.html

Michael...

it's really ALL Zebra ???


not EQ ??

not COMP ?

not ANYTHING out of Zebra ???

just pan and level on your DAW ???


AWESOME TRACK !!!

Hi Kloz I think i did the pan and level in Zebra as well. Yup i'm a bit wierd

/Michael

[TiUser]

I think it's more psychoacoustic than anything else.

I've gone through a couple of Zebra demos again... I am sorry, I am even more off the track I tried to walk along but there is anything subtle in every sound I don't like... something like "noble plastic", but it's hard to find any word for it and it's very subtle, not obvious. The virus has this a bit too imho but less. I've also compared to the Nord Modular G2 and this one seems to be clean.

Forget the different speakers, it's something different I guess. I know I might start a very controverse discussion with this experience, but I am still confused. Maybe I'm only nuts... so call a doctor...

[Urs]

there is anything subtle in every sound I don't like...

I wouldn't know what it is (maybe the whole stereo signal path is confusing), but then you might have more luck with Tera or Absynth...

[djsubject]

hes not using the beta on a non SSE2 PC is he?

Just guessing here as the only reason i can see for Z2 to not sound good is if its not working correctly

i love Z2!!!

Subz

[TiUser]

If I'd know any technical reason I'd tell you, but I can't.

Maybe it's an unknown psycho acoustic phenomenon.

I doubt it has to do with stereo, the new Prophet 08 for instance has a stereo path per voice too but is perfectly "clean" - just to stress this possibly meaningless expression again...

Look at mp3, it works for most people - maybe not for all...

I would be happy myself if I'd understand better, and to repeat, I am still confused. I wouldn't even rate it in any direction like good or bad, it's just something...

Maybe some off topic example... When I use my old Oberheim Matrix 6R it sounds always a way upfront, even if I put it in a large hall reverb. When I use an other synth with the same reverb it moves back... Now tell me the technical reason?... I can't and I bet you have difficulties either, do you?

Some things are simply strange and confusing...

...ok, I'll try the doctor first...

[TiUser]

hes not using the beta on a non SSE2 PC is he?

Just guessing here as the only reason i can see for Z2 to not sound good is if its not working correctly

i love Z2!!!

Subz

That's not my point, the sound is good but for me there is still something odd...

[projectdan]

Maybe its just not for you, or should we have a 30 page thread trying to convince you what your opinion should be?

[TiUser]

Maybe its just not for you, or should we have a 30 page thread trying to convince you what your opinion should be?

I don't know if it's for me, I haven't decided that yet.
Maybe I am in a state putting a kind of personal favorite potential candidates list together... Sound wise I like Arturias Modular V and NI B4, just to state two others on that list. I also like some creamware based synths.
I don't think I need 30 pages of people to convince me, there is only one person that can do that and that's me
Anyway I am not in a hurry either, so I have time for discussion and sharing experiences to get closer to what I might like best.
What I definitely don't want is a folder filled with hundreds of VSTi's... and just 2% different potential from one to the next synth...
But what you all can do is share your experiences.
I think there are many people here with much more experiences than I have and maybe that can be of valuable assistance.
At the moment it looks like there are only people who are perfectly happy with zebra...
But maybe there are some who have evaluated similar strange experiences, maybe not with zebra but other synths. Maybe that helps me to find out what is odd in my ears...

[justin3am]

What kind of fanboys are you people?! All I see is courteous suggestions and thoughtful anecdotes... wheres the FLAMES?!

Seriously though, I didn't love Zebra at first either and it was for the exact same unidentifiable reason. I found over time that I was dealing with thee the oscillators and signal flow the way I had learned from other synths. It took me a while to figure out that most of what I was trying to do with three or four oscillators could be done with a single oscillator and the oscFX. I also learned that the signal flow was conducive to very complex filter routing which I didn't quite get at first. Now I'll patch these crazy sidechained, self modulated monsters that span three of the four "channels".

I bought the synth based on what I read in the manual but it took me about three months to learn how to program sounds that I really I don't know, perhaps your experience would be different.

[kodama]

From what you're saying, you want a less thick more stale sound from the VA components of Z2.

From my few hours playing with the prophet 08 and the VA components of the nord modular g2, that's the basic impression I get.


They were developed to simply produce a sawtooth and a filter, etc...


Whereas - Z2 was designed from the ground up to sound warm and thick. The initial filter was designed to have character similar to a Roland and the XMF was designed to give you the moog phatty filter, albeit within a modular synth and with way more control.

Zebra was 'tuned' timbre-wise to be an flexible instrument with much character.

It also has a less bright sound than many instruments because of Urs' tuning to make it warm and non-aliasing.

Some people prefer aliased sounds (JP 8000, Vanguard) as it becomes part of the character of the synth.

I could be wrong, but I think that may be what you're running into?

[Urs]

Hehehe, the initial design was so that it does *not* sound like a Virus. I got tired of my Virus which always corrupted the mix by its prominent sound - it was like "either the Virus or the other machines". Hence I wanted a synth that just sits in the mix. This typically meant that the single note doesn't come across that special though.

The filters were modelled to give me that certain Ensoniq touch, which, yes, is a bit plastic. But also quite organic - where the Virus back then lacked. In the early nineties we called that "American sound" as in Emu, Kurzweil and Ensoniq - round bass, warm mids, soft heights with crisp transients.

Oscillators in Zebra 1.x were a bit harsher in the higher mids which I sacrificed in Z2 for, indeed, a cleaner and smoother sound (more digital?) with a lot of damping in the range above 8 kHz. One can compensate quite well for that with the "Brilliance" OscFX. I don't like it much but maybe I'll offer a 2x oversampling option to keep it smooth.

Other than that, hmmm, there's not much colouring. A quite interesting thing that occurred to me recently is the multiband processing in the ModFX unit (and shapers). Due to the band splitting one gets quite some mangled phases when the Eq is turned on (which it is by default). Maybe switching off the Eq in the Chorus section is helpful for people with phase sensitive speakers. Must investigate more on this, can't be too much of a big deal though.

Urs