I'm working on a song with the following bass line:
E D #C C
The harmony goes like this:
G B E
A D F#
A C# E
G C E
Note that the second chord goes up instead of down. (It's a D major chord to match the bass, however.) Is this acceptable, or should the chords go in the same direction as the bass? I realize it may depend on the melody. I just wasn't sure what the standard practice would be.
Question about inverted chords
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- KVRian
- 689 posts since 5 Mar, 2003 from Sir Osis of Liver
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-
- KVRian
- 1025 posts since 7 Nov, 2003
If you are wanting strict rules / guidelines for harmony then four part harmony is the area we would be talking about.
Within this some of the things you are supposed to watch for are consecutive octaves and fifths which are traditionally avoided in 4PH.
This would be for example a 'd' in the bass and a 'd' in the melody moving to an 'e' in the bass and melody respectively.
Therefore in answer to your question it is traditionally some times a bad thing if chords and bass are moving in the same direction, as you could see consecutive octaves and fifths may occur more readily.
The way the rules have come out however each individual voice (note), is looked at in relation to each other voice rather than as a bass purely in relation to chord.
In quickly looking at you progression according to these rules:
- The first progression from E minor to D major is fine.
- From D major to A major you get a consecutive octave from d to c#
- from A major to C major you get a consecutive octave from c# to C
These consecutives occur as one voice is following the bassline exactly but up an octave (or two?) note:more rules come into spacing but I will ignore these for now.
Excuse anything I've missed here but I will be happy to hash this out more if you wish to discuss as it helps with my musical studies also
P.S. If you like the sound you are making the rules can go out of the window but I'm sure you're aware of that
Within this some of the things you are supposed to watch for are consecutive octaves and fifths which are traditionally avoided in 4PH.
This would be for example a 'd' in the bass and a 'd' in the melody moving to an 'e' in the bass and melody respectively.
Therefore in answer to your question it is traditionally some times a bad thing if chords and bass are moving in the same direction, as you could see consecutive octaves and fifths may occur more readily.
The way the rules have come out however each individual voice (note), is looked at in relation to each other voice rather than as a bass purely in relation to chord.
In quickly looking at you progression according to these rules:
- The first progression from E minor to D major is fine.
- From D major to A major you get a consecutive octave from d to c#
- from A major to C major you get a consecutive octave from c# to C
These consecutives occur as one voice is following the bassline exactly but up an octave (or two?) note:more rules come into spacing but I will ignore these for now.
Excuse anything I've missed here but I will be happy to hash this out more if you wish to discuss as it helps with my musical studies also
P.S. If you like the sound you are making the rules can go out of the window but I'm sure you're aware of that
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- KVRAF
- 2830 posts since 2 Mar, 2003 from The only civilized county in Texas
It looks good. There is a general rule that says that the bass and the top voice (top note of the chords) should go in opposite directions. You don't have to obey that rule slavishly, but in general it's a good idea at least to avoid having parallel octaves and parallel fifths.cyanogen wrote:I'm working on a song with the following bass line:
E D #C C
The harmony goes like this:
G B E
A D F#
A C# E
G C E
Note that the second chord goes up instead of down. (It's a D major chord to match the bass, however.) Is this acceptable, or should the chords go in the same direction as the bass? I realize it may depend on the melody. I just wasn't sure what the standard practice would be.
In your case, having the E go up to F# is the perfect way out of a parallel octave you would have had if you'd gone to D.
After that the melody note goes to E, but a parallel movement in thirds is acceptable.
Victor.
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- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 689 posts since 5 Mar, 2003 from Sir Osis of Liver
Ah, I see. I was thinking so much about the direction of the chords that I didn't think about the octaves. Can you recommend a way to revoice these chords so I don't get the octaves?
4tune wrote:If you are wanting strict rules / guidelines for harmony then four part harmony is the area we would be talking about.
Within this some of the things you are supposed to watch for are consecutive octaves and fifths which are traditionally avoided in 4PH.
This would be for example a 'd' in the bass and a 'd' in the melody moving to an 'e' in the bass and melody respectively.
Therefore in answer to your question it is traditionally some times a bad thing if chords and bass are moving in the same direction, as you could see consecutive octaves and fifths may occur more readily.
The way the rules have come out however each individual voice (note), is looked at in relation to each other voice rather than as a bass purely in relation to chord.
In quickly looking at you progression according to these rules:
- The first progression from E minor to D major is fine.
- From D major to A major you get a consecutive octave from d to c#
- from A major to C major you get a consecutive octave from c# to C
These consecutives occur as one voice is following the bassline exactly but up an octave (or two?) note:more rules come into spacing but I will ignore these for now.
Excuse anything I've missed here but I will be happy to hash this out more if you wish to discuss as it helps with my musical studies also
P.S. If you like the sound you are making the rules can go out of the window but I'm sure you're aware of that
Buy my cd here (Prog rock/synth pop/classical/soundtrack-ish music):
http://cdbaby.com/cd/cyanogen
Newer songs/unreleased material:
https://soundcloud.com/cyanogenmusicpage
http://cdbaby.com/cd/cyanogen
Newer songs/unreleased material:
https://soundcloud.com/cyanogenmusicpage
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- KVRian
- 1025 posts since 7 Nov, 2003
Sure you could try:
E D #C C in bass (as you have already)
G B E
A D F#
A E A
G C E
As far as I can tell this is correct by the rules. Only one chord changed but the top voice/melody has changed also. Let me know if you wanted that the same and I will have another go.
regards
E D #C C in bass (as you have already)
G B E
A D F#
A E A
G C E
As far as I can tell this is correct by the rules. Only one chord changed but the top voice/melody has changed also. Let me know if you wanted that the same and I will have another go.
regards
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- KVRian
- 1025 posts since 7 Nov, 2003
This is a good tip to quickly avoid bass/melody parallels.VicDiesel wrote: It looks good. There is a general rule that says that the bass and the top voice (top note of the chords) should go in opposite directions. You don't have to obey that rule slavishly, but in general it's a good idea at least to avoid having parallel octaves and parallel fifths.
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- KVRAF
- 2830 posts since 2 Mar, 2003 from The only civilized county in Texas
Personally I wouldn't worry about them. They are in "inner voices". As long as the outer voices (the lowest and highest note) behave nicely, the inner ones are of secondary importance. Especially since you're not really writing polyphony.cyanogen wrote:Ah, I see. I was thinking so much about the direction of the chords that I didn't think about the octaves. Can you recommend a way to revoice these chords so I don't get the octaves?
Victor.
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- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 689 posts since 5 Mar, 2003 from Sir Osis of Liver
Interesting! I hadn't thought of it that way.
Buy my cd here (Prog rock/synth pop/classical/soundtrack-ish music):
http://cdbaby.com/cd/cyanogen
Newer songs/unreleased material:
https://soundcloud.com/cyanogenmusicpage
http://cdbaby.com/cd/cyanogen
Newer songs/unreleased material:
https://soundcloud.com/cyanogenmusicpage
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exmachinamusic exmachinamusic https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=112670
- KVRist
- 42 posts since 9 Jul, 2006
As far as I remember, the "rules" for 4 part harmony were developed in the classical period to avoid sounding like chant music, which featured a lot of parallel motion. Including parallel motion (parallel 5ths in particular), if you're consistent enough, can have that "chanty" effect on a tune. If you only have a few here and there, if might be a good idea to get rid of them, as they can sound a little blocky depending on the rest of the arrangement.
But you might absolutely love the way it sounds or works, or your piece might call for it. Try it a few different ways and see what fits.
But you might absolutely love the way it sounds or works, or your piece might call for it. Try it a few different ways and see what fits.
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- KVRAF
- 26033 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
the chords you have, in those inversions, for that melody are fine. completely fine. unless you find it deficient somehow to your own ear, they're perfectly right.
the rules posed here are rules made after the fact, by analyzing musics of another time, which doesn't apply to much outside that time, unless we are involved in an academic exercise of emulating the practice period they refer to.
the rules posed here are rules made after the fact, by analyzing musics of another time, which doesn't apply to much outside that time, unless we are involved in an academic exercise of emulating the practice period they refer to.
