Are certain Keys / Scales more prevalent in house / techno ?

[agentsanchez]

The thread title pretty much says it all...

[ckatrun411]

I think minor keys/scales are pretty big in dance genres... But I am not sure if I would say, " a certain key or scale is dominating any genre of music."

[H.Noury]

Strong affirmation of everything witch is down and stable : the beat, the measure, the tonality (so 1st and 5th degrees), just add noisy things like filter cut of effects.

Some tried more "experimental things", but...

[agentsanchez]

When you say 1st and fifth degrees, you're referring to chords and melodies that root themselves on those keys yes?

What about scales?

[ckatrun411]

when he says first and fifth degrees he is talking about the tonic and the dominant.. of any key...

so, if you are in c... c is the first degree of the scale, and the fifth is g... as far as scales go... stick to minor....

Dance music is heavy on production, short on musical complication. You would be hard pressed to find a dance producer who is working with every scale and mode in the book...

[Auen Cross]

Dear agentsanchez:

Techno music does not focus on any particular key or feature particular scales. However it does utilize some very common tonal progressions.

In MAJOR Keys:

-I-vi-IV-V (eg, C major, A minor, F major, G major)
-I-iii-ii or IV-V (eg, C major, E minor, D minor or F Major, G Major)
-I-III-vi-IV-V (eg, C major, E major, A minor, F major, G major)

In Minor Keys:

-i-VI-III-VII (eg, D minor, B flat major, F major, C major)
-i-v-VI-III-VII (eg, D minor, A minor, B flat major, F major, C major)

These are just a couple for you to try out- you'll get the musical picture behind it and be able to invent your own harmonies.

Hope this helped a bit.

[agentsanchez]

Thanks - I'll try out what you recommended.

One concept that is still a little fuzzy for me is the concept of key vs scale. I realize the key of a piece is USUALLY the first note of the track, but I'm a little fuzzy as to exactly how the key is derived and how it relates to the piece of music. I.E. what does it mean in the big picture?

Scales make sense to me - it's like a selection of raw building blocks. But they key is what...? And more importantly, what is the impact when you change the key of a piece? How would you go about doing this deliberately?

This whole music 'theory' business is like diving into the deep end of the pool without knowing how to swim. I've always had an ear for what sounds good, but figuring out how to CREATE something that sounds good (in terms of harmony and melody) is a different affair entirely. These forums are proving to be a rather helpful resource as I try to make sense of this stuff

Thanks!

[Auen Cross]

Just as you mentioned, this is music THEORY- it's ideas and rules set to streamline music creation and understanding. What I am about to tell you is the theory behind music. You don't necessarily have to go by it, but it is advisable to stick with it before trying to jump off the cliff and test your wings.

Keys/Scales are two sides of the same thing. Each key has it's very own respective scales that are unique to that key.

Another way to put it is that the word "key" is a general term, while scales define the 7 unique tones that make up that key. Every key has seven unique tones that compose it. For example, C Major = C, D, E, F, G, A, B (then C, which is a repeat). D Major = D, E, F Sharp, G, A, B, C Sharp.

So here's the question- let's say a song is said to be in the key of "A" major. It's scale would be A, B, C#, D, E, F#, G#. But the chords in the song keep changing. Let's say the song has a basic pattern like this: A Major, F# minor, D Major, E Major (a very typical progression, try it on your guitar/keyboard).

Each of those keys has a scale associated with it. If you dissect melodies and see how they correspond with their accompanying chords, you will notice that when a chord is being used, the note in the melody should come from the scale of the chord's key. In othe words, the key/chord determines which notes you can use in your melody (and the set of notes you can use are called the scale).

Hope this makes it clear. Feel free to ask about anything you do not understand.

[jedilaw]

One concept that is still a little fuzzy for me is the concept of key vs scale. I realize the key of a piece is USUALLY the first note of the track, but I'm a little fuzzy as to exactly how the key is derived and how it relates to the piece of music. I.E. what does it mean in the big picture?

Scales make sense to me - it's like a selection of raw building blocks. But they key is what...? And more importantly, what is the impact when you change the key of a piece? How would you go about doing this deliberately?

They're related terms. The key is the set of allowed or expected notes for a given piece, and the scale is just a list of those notes. See here for a more educated explanation. Also, take a look at this page, which lays out and explains the Circle of Fifths. If you wrap your head around the Circle of Fifths, it will help you tremendously with your music composition.

As for changing the key, that can be done simply by changing some of the intervals in the scale you play. For the key of C (which contains no sharps or flats), you can play a C-major scale, which uses all of the notes contained in that key. But you could also play a pentatonic major scale by dropping out the fourth and the seventh notes (degrees), e.g. leaving out the F and the B. You would still be in the key of C-major, since all the notes you played are included in that key, but your scale would not be using the full set of included notes.

Now you can alter the scale (and thus the key) by changing your intervals. For example, you could flatten the third and the sixth and wind up with a C-harmonic-minor scale (E-flat and A-flat instead of natural E and A) or flatten only the third for an ascending C-melodic-minor (E-flat instead of natural E, everything else natural) or flatten the third, sixth and seventh for a descending c-melodic-minor (E-flat, A-flat, B-flat, everything else natural). You might find this site useful, as it will show you all of the different scales starting from a given note.

[pedrorf]

In MAJOR Keys:

-I-vi-IV-V (eg, C major, A minor, F major, G major)
-I-iii-ii or IV-V (eg, C major, E minor, D minor or F Major, G Major)
-I-III-vi-IV-V (eg, C major, E major, A minor, F major, G major)

May I ask what is the theory behind a major chord on the third degree of a major scale? I've heard progressions with that chord, but I don't understand them.

[Auen Cross]

Dear pedrorf,

The 3rd degree major key (III) is a slight twist of harmonic idea that doesn't make any sense from the standpoint of musical theory. It's simply something that sounds great when played out on a guitar/keyboard/etc.

The only attempted theoretical explanation would come in from the standpoint of cadences, i.e. chord degrees that sound good together. One of the most well-used and aesthetically pleasing cadences is the authentic cadence (V-I or V-i). In the case of the chord progression you asked about, E major (III from the reference of C Major) is the Dominant( Fifth degree of V) of A minor (i).

So from the song view point, the melody starts in C major, and E major comes in as a surprise. But the surprise chord resolves seamlessly into A minor.

Either way, words don't cut it. Try it out on your instrument, and you'll see what I mean.

[pedrorf]

Dear pedrorf,

The 3rd degree major key (III) is a slight twist of harmonic idea that doesn't make any sense from the standpoint of musical theory. It's simply something that sounds great when played out on a guitar/keyboard/etc.

The only attempted theoretical explanation would come in from the standpoint of cadences, i.e. chord degrees that sound good together. One of the most well-used and aesthetically pleasing cadences is the authentic cadence (V-I or V-i). In the case of the chord progression you asked about, E major (III from the reference of C Major) is the Dominant( Fifth degree of V) of A minor (i).

So from the song view point, the melody starts in C major, and E major comes in as a surprise. But the surprise chord resolves seamlessly into A minor.

Either way, words don't cut it. Try it out on your instrument, and you'll see what I mean.

Oh, I tried it lots of times . I use it on a song, and I know what you mean. I was just wondering if there was any theoretical explanation, because it didn't fit the little I know about harmony. But I don't have any formal musical training, so I thought perhaps I was missing something obvious. Your answer was really very helpful, thanks.

[Auen Cross]

No problem, pedrorf. Best of luck with your music! ^_^

[Mordent]

The C major scale is CDEFGABC

And the triads (three note chords) that arise from this scale are

CEG (C major chord)
DFA (D minor chord)
EGB (E Minor chord)
FAC (F Major chord)
GBD (G major chord)
ACE (A minor chord)
BDF (B diminished chord, or part of G7 chord)


So for any key you can use the major scale to find the minor chords which are useful for harmonization.

[nuffink]

Dear pedrorf,

The 3rd degree major key (III) is a slight twist of harmonic idea that doesn't make any sense from the standpoint of musical theory. It's simply something that sounds great when played out on a guitar/keyboard/etc.

The only attempted theoretical explanation would come in from the standpoint of cadences, i.e. chord degrees that sound good together. One of the most well-used and aesthetically pleasing cadences is the authentic cadence (V-I or V-i). In the case of the chord progression you asked about, E major (III from the reference of C Major) is the Dominant( Fifth degree of V) of A minor (i).

So from the song view point, the melody starts in C major, and E major comes in as a surprise. But the surprise chord resolves seamlessly into A minor.

Either way, words don't cut it. Try it out on your instrument, and you'll see what I mean.

Hmmmm. It's a bit dangerous to suggest that anything makes no sense from the standpoint of theory, or that there's only one explanation.

The III Maj (in a major scale context) can be explained as a Modal Interchange chord from (among others) the 3rd mode of Melodic Minor (Lydian Augmented), the 3rd mode of Harmonic Minor (Ionian #5) and the 6th mode of Harmonic Major (Aeolian b1).

The op should also know that much House and Techno contains nothing that could easily be identified as harmonic progression. It often appears to use parallel minor chords. This is a natural consequence of sampling such chords and allowing the sampler to repitch them.