Elektron Machinedrum... anything like it for less$$$$?

[mute]

esx1.. and its more than just a 'drum machine' whoever said that, its just as much a drum synth as the machine drum. technically speaking. they both work off samples and u can do wavetable based synthesis, with all the proper params (env/filters/lfo/fx/whatnot) on the esx. i often use it 'drum synth' style (that is..starting with a basic waveform or noise and creating my hits via the synth parameters and envelopes). iirc.. elektron even stopped making the non UW versions altogether recently because they just werent selling as well. check out the current thread on the esx1 that i resurrected because of a google search. honestly, they really are very similar machines and i've used both intensely (roommate had a mkI UW that i more or less stole from him for about 6 months).. and for the difference in features, its not really worth another 1200-1400 usd for an elektron. IMO.

here's the general differences:

the machinedrum has several individual effects available per part. part = per drum sound. it also has external polyphonic midi sequencing.. but that fails in part to the fact that if you are doing chords.. all notes must be of equal length, so good by to chord + right hand or left hand parts at the same time.
also.. each part on the machinedrum can be assigned to whatever type you want it to be.

the esx has better sampling/resampling facilities. not just loading waves off a computer. as a difference compared to the MD as stated earlier.. on the esx, each part is statically assigned, so what they are is what they are (you can use one hits or whatever on any of them though). you have 9 regular 'drum' parts, 2 keyboard parts (for synths cycles/samples/whatever). 2 stretch parts, and 1 slicer part (mpc style). the machinedrum doesn't have a note input mode like the esx's keyboard parts but you can get around that easily.. specially with a midi kb.
the effect section on the esx is routable/chainable like on the machinedrum, but they are global. it's insert style though like an aux send, and since you can change the routing types it is very easy to dedicate one of the 3 simultaneously available effect types to one part if you wish. i do it all the time. still not as elaborate as the md fx wise, but its plenty enough to make me happy. much better than the earlier electribes. all the other parameters however.. filters (lp,hp,bp,bp+), lfo section, amp/env, fx send, etc. are individual per part and just like the machinedrum each of these parameters' automation can be recorded. even the fx send buttons, etc. midi sequencing on the esx will always be monophonic and there are no additional tracks dedicated to sequencing other gear like on the elektron stuff (but because of some weaknesses there you might end up wanting a better sequencer for other external gear anyways... if you are into that sort of thing).

so as you can see.. there aren't many differences really.. not enough imo to validate such a huge price difference. the main thing the machinedrum has going for it over the esx is the 100% individual fx chaining per part, "parameter lock" (tho, thats easy to mimic), and the fact that any part can be any type.

i'd like to get a machinedrum, and i can afford it.. but it just doesnt seem justified to me pricewise. i'll be keeping my eye on the digital version of the linndrumII .. but i doubt ill buy one of those either. check out that other thread tho.. theres a few more boxes worth checking out.

the yamaha rs7000 btw, is also a kick ass piece of gear.

[soundklinik]

Thanx Mute for that tutorial.. and all the fine differences you point out.
You do a better job then the manual!

I believe that the ESX1 is what I am after...and don't go broke!
Cheers

[musikmachine]

I've seen the emx come up as a comparison but apparently the monomachine is a lot better,whatever that means.I have an emx and i love it,put some decent tubes in it recently snd it sounds much better than the stock tubes it comes with,they don't suit the mx imo.There's lot of demos on youtube

do you still have your RS7000?

Sure do!Haven't used it as much as since i put the tubes in the mx though.

[Uncle E]

The Machinedrum sounds better than the Electribe. It goes beyond synth parameters and algorithms, it just sounds as though better quality components are used in the Machinedrum than are used in most Korg products. There's just a certain "cheapness" to the sound of Electribe's (tube or non-), MicroKorg's, M2000's, et al, whereas the Machinedrum and Monomachine have a purity that's missing in most of today's electronic instruments.

That said, sound quality isn't the focal point of this thread and an Electribe is tops in every other regard. I'd go so far as to say I *prefer* an Electribe over the Machinedrum in regards to usability and creative inspiration.

btw, people in the pro audio community have had luck using lower gain tubes in voltage designs such as what's in the EMX-1/ESX-1, the idea being that the Electribe's don't feed enough volts to properly drive a 12AX7/ECC83.

[mute]

The Machinedrum sounds better than the Electribe. It goes beyond synth parameters and algorithms, it just sounds as though better quality components are used in the Machinedrum than are used in most Korg products. There's just a certain "cheapness" to the sound of Electribe's (tube or non-), MicroKorg's, M2000's, et al, whereas the Machinedrum and Monomachine have a purity that's missing in most of today's electronic instruments.

i dunno if i would say i agree with all of that... and theres some misinformation too. the synthesis engine thats used in the ms2000 (and mk) is one of the most respected VA engines out there.. still. and its pretty old now. the misinformation comes from some publications that say the electribes share the same engine with the ms2k.. while that might be true in terms of waveform generation on the EMX1, it's total bs when it comes to everything else.. specially the filter. it's extremely noticable on the resonant filters.. the resonance on the electribes sound synthetic and 'fake' after a certain point. anyways.. that said (and you pretty much said it without saying it) it all really comes down to the programming. the monomachine however.. is a very powerful synth with a fun sequencer. they're pretty much different bags. when it comes to the MD vs electribes tho.. theres a much better argument to be made, especially in terms of budget.

out of the bag the MD will sound better than a ESX if you are trying to do anything not techno, dnb, or hiphop sounding. however.. once u get past using anything that came with the machine you'll get far better results. i would love to have a live esx vs machinedrum battle with someone that knew how to use theirs well that'd be alot of fun.

anyways.. the way the market is going, i expect we'll start seeing many many more of these types of drum synths/machines/samplers with deeper features and quick access (rs7000 and newer mc-X0X stuff is really workstation driven and aren't quite as quick/hands on.. imo. i give props to the rs7000 tho).

im lookin forward to seeing what korg does next with the electribes, hopefully something will be announced at NAMM next month.

[zoogoo]

I am mostly all for software over hardware because of the costs and sometimes lack of technology and efficiency; although I have done some research about the machine drum and it is a much better system then I could ever build with a midi controller. My partner has been spending so much time with max/msp to get the right sequencer and it seems elektron has already done it. Of course it is limiting but I think limitations are sometimes a good thing. You can get so lost into vsts you can forget why you were doing it in the first place. I am like against those mpc machines and a ton of synths, but I do not think I could build something like the machinedrum. hours on end I spend with setups on energyxt, making it from scratch.

The reason I am making this post is I need some viewpoints why I should or should not inve4st in this hardware devise. Money is not that big of an issue, but I do not want to resort to standard music. How far can I go with this thing? I am into very complex plunderphonics/flashcore/ambient/noise and I don't much like techno, but by viewing the specs of this machine, it seems you can do a lot. Much more room than any other machine I have seen. I tried the Roland 505 synth machine and that was so limiting, is it much different?

Anyways. A few words would be most helpful

[soundklinik]

THANK you all for all the inputs and I ended up with an ESX1 and I
Cheers

[zoogoo]

ESX1 is an amazing machine. I had one for about 2 years and recorded so many fine loops. i was satisfied and sold it. It seems that equipment is expendable. You can only get so much use out of it unless your playing the same stuff. Enjoy the hardware.

i should of made a new post

[kuniklo]

esx1.. and its more than just a 'drum machine' whoever said that, its just as much a drum synth as the machine drum.

Not true. The ESX1 is sample playback only. The Machinedrum actually uses synthesis engines for its sounds and the UW version adds some sampling capability.

[kuniklo]

The reason I am making this post is I need some viewpoints why I should or should not inve4st in this hardware devise. Money is not that big of an issue, but I do not want to resort to standard music. How far can I go with this thing?

You can do a *lot* with the Machinedrum-UW, but it can take some patience to get the most out of it and you will have to sacrifice a lot of the conveniences you expect from software. One nice thing about the Elektron gear is that it holds its value very well, so you can buy one and sell it six months later if you don't like it without losing too much. Spending some time with it hands-on is the only way you're really going to find out if you like it.

[sweet_trip]

- attack rack, ~500$, + Behringer BCR2000 for full control, + hardware step sequencer (eg a cheap korg electribe): total cost ~900$

i wish attack had better MIDI implementations for real time control. i sold mine because of this. it was very frustrating imo. in contrast their MicroQ synth, which i think came out before the RackAttack has great MIDI implementation. the RackAttack feels very unfinished to me, and i found using the Attack VSTi a lot easier and better. it does sound great, although a little brighter or hi-fi than the Machinedrum, and it's synthesis kills the Machinedrum in many ways, specially for creating crazy sounds.

i luv my Machinedrum though

[musikmachine]

ESX1 is an amazing machine. I had one for about 2 years and recorded so many fine loops. i was satisfied and sold it. It seems that equipment is expendable. You can only get so much use out of it unless your playing the same stuff. Enjoy the hardware.

i should of made a new post

It rocks with the mx routed into it. Seems like unlimited potential as you can warp the sound in so many ways and the samples can be treated differently in each sample mode. I've had the mx for a while and it still surprises me which is why i picked up an SX. The electribes are hella fun though!

[Biopharmer]

I'd say the korg EMX-1 because you still get FM synthesis and analog (and i'm sure c64 style stuff if you want) and it does drums. I've wondered the same thing too. Watch some youtube videos of the emx, to make a decision.

[zoogoo]

I spent like 3 hours reading the whole manual of the machinedrum(nerdo).

One thing i realized as a more of a software guy is that i can use this machine as a sequincer for any device i want on my computer. The esx1 proved to be a very useful midi control. it sends automation back and forth. once i get that turbo thing too, i can sysx and send sequinces to synths or drums synths (dks is good). I got one of those novation remote zero SL, so i can but that above the machine drum for more control. There was nothing in the manual that said about using the knobs on the machine drum as cc parameters, but i am sure it will send some message.

[Katzenjammer]

Does the Korg machines have parameter lock as the MD does? That's one of the big things on the MD. Locking down different settings for each step can give you all kinds of crazy sequences.