Lucy tuning (& microtuning in general)

[coquillo]

I've recently got interested in microtuning and the Lucy tuning system in particular. Am I right in thinking you use a different Lucy tuning for each key??
And if you produce a tun file with Scala for use with A=432hz, would that be the same as one for use at A=440?
I can hear the diferences but can't get my head around the maths! Tia

[BertKoor]

Just skimmed through the article... Seems like he based his scales on A (because he's based mainly on guitar which is tuned with A1=110Hz.) But his main motivation was:

After twenty five years of playing, I realised that I was still unable to tune any guitar so that it sounded in tune for both an open G major and an open E major.

In his position I'd question the quality of the nut and my own positioning of the left hand fingers. But anyway....

It's based on the A note, and intervals of 190.9858 cents and 122.5354 cents are added. Lucy states on the usability of his Mark VII fret model:

it limits the number of keys which may be used to up to 7 flats or 9 sharps, or any conceivable key, if an error of (2L - 3s) = 14.367 cents between sharps and adjacent flats is tolerable.

So there you go. It's not intended to be an equal temperament tuning, but you knew that already. It seems to be intended to be usable for all keys, so you don't have to retune the guitar to play in another key. That was his main motive to begin with!

I'm not that familiar with Scala, but the difference between 440 and 432Hz is -31.77 cents. Or more exactly: -31.7666536 cents. That's the amount you'll have to transpose.

[llatham]

I've recently got interested in microtuning and the Lucy tuning system in particular. Am I right in thinking you use a different Lucy tuning for each key??
And if you produce a tun file with Scala for use with A=432hz, would that be the same as one for use at A=440?
I can hear the diferences but can't get my head around the maths! Tia

If you have newsgroup access (or you can use Google Groups) you can post on rec.music.theory and hopefully Hans Aberg will respond - he's big into microtuning and Scala.

Best,
Steve

[coquillo]

Thanks guys. Newsgroups, how could I have forgotten them?
By the way, the reason I got into this was because of a mention of "audio opium" on another forum.

[jancivil]

Just skimmed through the article... Seems like he based his scales on A (because he's based mainly on guitar which is tuned with A1=110Hz.) But his main motivation was:

After twenty five years of playing, I realised that I was still unable to tune any guitar so that it sounded in tune for both an open G major and an open E major.

In his position I'd question the quality of the nut and my own positioning of the left hand fingers. But anyway....

But anyway.

OK. Here's why a G string tuned to sound right in that open E chord SOUNDS out of tune if the open G string is in tune with the Open G chord, particularly the stopped G an octave above that on the first string.

Open E chord: the root, which as it is an open string, rings quite strong. Over this, has a P. fifth and an octave; acoustically we have something which I'm going to call a pure third happening, this is acoustical phenomenon. It is a FACT, and A FEATURE of 12-et, that when you tune the G string, the perfectly fretted, perfectly adequate nut in place, first fret G SHARP, is going,, to,, be: sharp, compared to the G Sharp the E, B, E' are generating.

Many of us settle for a compromise in tuning, many do not, not minding that sharp third. (guitars with adjustable bridges are set up to mitigate this as best as can be done, and you get a less pronounced effect in these cases the further you get from the nut.) I spent some years in the world of classical guitar, and have played with enough people who tune via strobe tuners, and I do understand that those folks settle for the other compromise (me, I just don't use open G chords much). 12-tone equal temperament is compromised harmonically, and this example that Mr. Lucy begins with is at the crux of this biscuit. Hence, an endeavor towards another intonation system.

[BertKoor]

I can understand that with non-equal-temperament tuning the open E and G chords sound different.

But if Mr. Lucy were a piano player then he'd probably never invented his alternative tuning system Equal temperament intonation is sort of a fact of life on piano.

[jancivil]

I can understand that with non-equal-temperament tuning the open E and G chords sound different.

But if Mr. Lucy were a piano player then he'd probably never invented his alternative tuning system Equal temperament intonation is sort of a fact of life on piano.

Why not? On a piano ALL the thirds are sharper than 'real' thirds. Do you believe everyone is satisfied with this?

People in orchestras on winds and strings are always subverting - adjusting - ET to get a more musical sound.


Piano is real good for atonal music, I believe dodecaphony is the end game of equal temperament.

[memyselfandus]

great info

[Jay Sherman]

Piano is real good for atonal music, I believe dodecaphony is the end game of equal temperament.

Think I'll give twelve tone technique a try. Thanks for mentioning it.

[JoaCHIP]

Never forget the simplicity and clarity of just intonation. My favorite example is a musician from Tanzania called Hukwe Ubi Zawose and the ilimba notes he usually uses under his singing. I'm quite sure those are just intonation!

Check the very first part of . That's gotta be just intonation, or am I deaf?