SQ80 emulating VSTi available

[1-2-Many]

Just look at Synth1 or similar synths... i just want to see the most parameters at a glance without switching.

Also the envelopes should be graphically...

No. I just want a better gui and not a lame 80s one.

I suspect your problem with the gui is in actuality a problem with the architecture of the synth, and possibly a lack of understanding such. If you understood it, you'd likely realize that the gui fits the synth perfectly as far as being able to easily access and change all the features. I wouldn't change one thing about the current gui, except for maybe the window dressings.

I really don't see how someone could expect to wrap all this synth's settings into one page.

Your request is reasonable if you want to change the look of things (dials, buttons, digital readouts, backdrop, etc), but not so if what you're really after is making it easy by removing features and pages. Besides, putting everything on one page would certainly not make it easier - you'd get the opposite.

Your request for graphical envelopes would be a nice addition, where you could mouse each point and have that reflected in the numeric setting, but that would likely require another page.

[MarsHottentot]

I don't think the average user is prepared for the degree of modulation routings this synth offers. When a previous post mentioned current flat synths like oatmeal or the free CM magazine ones (which are fine VST's), I realized just how different SQ8L is to the standard VST additive analog. It has more in common with the PATCHABLE MODULAR SYNTHS in that respect. Almost anything can modulate anything else. I'll see if I can't bang out a tutorial that covers the GUI and the modulation options.

I'd wait on that as it seems Pepsito doesn't want to have to learn the current GUI, he wants a different GUI altogether. Is there anyone else who is having difficulty that would use the tutorial that maxmace is proposing?

[codec_spurt]

Any discussion about the GUI on this is a non-argument as far as I am
concerned.

This is one of the easiest synths in the world to program.

A GUI is more than knobs.

If you put 'knobs on it' it would be a different beast.
This is an emulation ffs.

And those 'Soft Buttons' - is it true that they were the result
of research for systems for fighter jets?


If you would like to program this - you can.
Download the manual.
It is one of the best manuals ever written on synthesis, not just
CrossWave synthesis which the SQ employs...

I suspect you don't want to take the time and want a knob to tweak-
like a magic bullet.

I will tell you why that is so lame:
If you spent a few hours - with the manual - the GUI would make
perfect sense and you would have one of the most versatile
hybrid sound engines ever invented at your fingertips with the
added benefit of it being one of the easiest sound engines
to manipulate.

Program a DX7 or a Wavestation (or their Software Emulations)
and see how they compare.


It would actually be IMPOSSIBLE to program a knob GUI for this beast.
It could not be done.


No harm in asking though, but as you have failed to deliver ONE specific
argument to the benefit or application of a single knob-to-parameter
function, I will just keep thinking you are a bit of a lamer when
it comes to sound-design.

Why do you think they didn't put 'knobs-on-it' when they built the
original machine?


(eh, I've just realised - this is going pretty good for a non-argument)


So, get yourself the manual, RTFT! and get tweaking. This thing is
a joy to program and the recent implementation of the GUI makes it even
more so! If you like knobs-on-it, get Polyanna. You have more chance
of an Ensoniq SD-1 Emulation happening than this thing getting
knobbed-up....If you are serious about sound design, you won't
regret it!

</non argument>




Btw, any explanation as to the Left/Right audio channel not coming through
on some of the presets?

Has no one else experienced this?

I have tried it on a few computers and a few hosts and the problem
is consistent - some presets are missing one channel of audio, whilst
others being extremely unbalanced, and others being perfectly fine.

What gives?

[Pepsito]

"So, get yourself the manual, RTFT! and get tweaking."

:-) There's no manual or tutorial available... and the original manuals from the SQ80 are not "compatible" with the latest SQ8L...

[dirty oscillators]

Program a DX7 or a Wavestation (or their Software Emulations)and see how they compare.

actually the software Wavestation VSTi is easier to use than the actual synth. and, although i haven't used it, i've heard the FM8 is easier to use than the DX-7.

It would actually be IMPOSSIBLE to program a knob GUI for this beast. It could not be done.

sure you could. why wouldn't you be able to?


anyways, for me the point is that it's an easy synth to get your head around and program regardless of knobs and sliders. especially if you've owned an ESQ-1 or an SQ-80... i mean, yeah, porting it over to a GUI with everything on one page and sliders to change parameters might make things easier but really, if you know how to program, the current GUI isn't that hard to use.

no complaints from me about the GUI - i like it.

[dirty oscillators]

"So, get yourself the manual, RTFT! and get tweaking."

There's no manual or tutorial available... and the original manuals from the SQ80 are not "compatible" with the latest SQ8L...

the SQ80 manuals aren't compatible *at all* with it's software emulator?

[maxmace]

I was in no way ripping on the "flat page" fixed-architecture 2 and 3 oscillator VST's that are common. Many of them are very good. It's just that their routing is more hard-wired, like a MiniMoog. If the SQ8L used a "big page" layout like ZebraCM or PolyIblit, the GUI would cover something like 3840*2048 pixels and you would need a "patch cord overlay" of some kind to show the current relationships of the modulators.

The SQ80's idea that an envelope (for example) is just an envelope, and you can apply it to either amplitude, pitch or filter (or all 3 in any combination) shares more with the world of OBJECT-ORIENTED PROGRAMMING. In some ways it is better than a Modular Synth in the sense that most hardware modules have only 1 input and 1 output, whereas SQ80 LFO's, OSCs, ENVs and so forth can be routed into a complex spider web of cross-modulation (if you choose). Essentially they are MULTIPLE IN-AND-OUT modules which can cross-modulate, or even feedback-modulate themselves. Its very powerful, and I see how it can become maddeningly confusing.

I will attempt to address it in a screencast later this month. I know this is a wordy post, but it might help show the GUI challenge faced by both Sigi and the original hardware designers. The ESQ1/SQ8x is not the only synth that has this capability, so if you can master the SQ8L, you can use a variety of synths that allow complex cross-modulation.
--M.

[codec_spurt]

Pepsito, I think this is pertinent to our 'argument', taken from the
manual:

http://itec.uka.de/~buchty/ensoniq/manuals/SQ80.pdf

===========================================

A Word About the Manual

We realize that many people don't particularly care for reading manuals. You bought the SQ-80 for its ability to make music, not for a graduate course in applied computer technology. Still, the fact remains that you have in your possession an extremely sophisticated computer device
(disguised as a keyboard instrument) which is capable of performing an enormous number of tasks. It may be necessary. when all else fails, to look in the book to find out how to do something. But because of the SQ-80's friendly user interface and intuitive operation, you'll probably only have to look once.

The odds are that whatever you need to know to get the most out of your SQ-80 is right here in the Musician's Manual. Every effort has been made to present the material in a way that is neither too technical nor too pedestrian. Take some time to look through it. and you'll find lots of hints and operational advice that will enhance both your enjoyment and your productivity. But enough of this serious stuff. Fire up your new SQ-80 and have some fun.

===========================================



This manual IS compatible.
This is what the SQ8L is an emulation of!

You might have to do a little 'translation', but it is worth its weight
in gold.

TBF, I probably would shudder at programming this thing as well if
I didn't have previous experience of programming an SD-1 (not TOO
disimilar), and I had to go over a few points again just to
catch up on what I had forgotten - so yeah, the manual is invaluable!

I think the point is that the power available is easily at hand if you
are prepared to learn a slightly new form of synthesis (and interface) -
for that is what it is. It will be a few hours well spent on your part.
And the manual is written in a semi-hand-holding-tutorial style.
So it is not as daunting as it's size and comprehensiveness might
at first suggest.

Don't mean to be harsh
Just trying to help you discover new sonic possibilities.

[blatanville]

...The SQ80's idea that an envelope (for example) is just an envelope, and you can apply it to either amplitude, pitch or filter (or all 3 in any combination) shares more with the world of OBJECT-ORIENTED PROGRAMMING. In some ways it is better than a Modular Synth in the sense that most hardware modules have only 1 input and 1 output, whereas SQ80 LFO's, OSCs, ENVs and so forth can be routed into a complex spider web of cross-modulation (if you choose). Essentially they are MULTIPLE IN-AND-OUT modules which can cross-modulate, or even feedback-modulate themselves. Its very powerful, and I see how it can become maddeningly confusing. ...

Linplug's Octopus has the same philosophy: and envelope is an envelope. The designer (Maxx Claster) HAS made a distinction to the point that certain envelopes may only point to LFOs or pitch, or amplitude, etc. But the basis is the same.
And Octopus has several multi-page panels to cope with this. It is illustrative, BUT when you're dealing with potentially 32 envelopes, 8 oscillators, a sample oscillator, and the ability to additively sculpt the oscillator waveforms, paging becomes a necessity.

SQ8L is a very interesting synth, and as has been beaten to death here, the interface is learnable. 1000s of people learned to use Ensoniq's menu-buttons-and-soft-keys approach back in the 80s and 90s, so clearly it can be done. You just need to get past the need for instant gratification and come to grips with controlling the options presented to you.

Alternatively, get a copy of SynthEdit, or SynthMaker, or Reaktor, (or even KarmaFX synth, if you want a some-what easier learning curve), sit down with the manual, and re-create the synth architecture and layout the GUI as you'd like to see it.

I'm not trying to say "put up or shut up," though: it's just that the dev of SQ8L (and SQ8X to come) has a very particular desire: to re-create a beloved synth as closely as possible (see the number of "emulation" options available, giving the user the option to make it sound "real" (like an SQ80) or "better" (as good as modern VSTis can sound)). That includes mirroring, to a great degree, the original UI, whose designers took a particular approach to the synth architecture, and smoothed out accessing the architecture as best they could.

now go make some music!

[1-2-Many]

"So, get yourself the manual, RTFT! and get tweaking."

There's no manual or tutorial available... and the original manuals from the SQ80 are not "compatible" with the latest SQ8L...

NOT - The SQ80 manual (which I linked you to earlier BTW) is VERY compatible/applicable with the SQ8L. Maybe you should read it and find out for yourself how compatible it is before making unintelligent comments.

[codec_spurt]

dirty oscillators,

When I said impossible, I meant impractical to the point of it being
impossible, in the sense of it being futile.

I'm sure it COULD be done, but it would be a pointless exercise
changing the nature of the thing we are dealing with.

You might even need a second screen

But please, let's not get into that argument, it ain't ever
gonna happen....


I never owned an ESQ-1 or SQ-80, I had an SD-1 which employs
Transwave synthesis - not a million miles away - anyway it
employed the same type of Envelope Generators and that 'Time'
function can be a bit 'trick' when you first come across it,
but it is a powerful feature.





Pepsito, check out the second release function on the envelopes:


==========================
Times and Levels

The four Envelopes on the SQ-80 are defined in terms of Time and Level. For each Envelope, you have control over four Time segments (TIME 1, TIME 2, TIME 3, and TIME 4) and three Levels (LEVEL 1, LEVEL 2 and LEVEL 3),
When a key is struck the Envelope level, starting at Zero, takes
a fixed amount of time defined by TIME 1 to reach LEVEL 1. It then takes
TIME 2 to reach LEVEL 2. Next. at the end of TIME 3 it reaches
LEVEL 3, where it will remain as long as the key is held down.
After the key is released the signal takes TIME 4 to return to Zero
(unless the value of TIME 4 is followed by an "R." in which case a Second
Release Time will follow TIME 4. See below).

===========================


That "R" stands for REVERB as much as it stands for Release, I think.
If ever your sounds are a bit dry or thin, take this value up -
it is an excellent 'Pseudo-Reverb' effect.

Like I said, it's all explained in the manual.

[maxmace]

Bud mentioned cobbling Ensoniq architecture synths together in Synthedit. Besides WusiKstation, one of the early NOVAkILL VST's also did this. Good luck finding it (its his only 3 oscillator subtractive one, I think). The sound would still not be the same, due to the influence of the DOC chip (which we've mentioned).

Also, here is a link to a brief article on the DOC chip's influence on the SQ8L:

http://www.scoreforsale.com/html/sq8l.html

[Pepsito]

Hm it seems like that (for example) the filter cutoff can't be automated by the host?

[codec_spurt]

Hm it seems like that (for example) the filter cutoff can't be automated by the host?

Wrong again!

What makes you say that?


Download (for example) this bank: 'C_S_Bank-02'

http://rekkerd.org/patches/plug-in/sq8lsq8x/

and find the patch called 'Mod-Wheely' - it modulates the filter
cutoff - now tweak your modwheel et voila! By now you should
be getting the picture...


The reason I chose this patch is because I know for certain that the
Filter Cutoff Frequency CAN be automated by the host. You can record
your changes into Ableton or XT or Cubase or whatever you use - LIVE,
or draw it in visually.........and your host will be automating
the cutoff frequency of the filter!

Refer to page 52 of the manual and/or press the button labeled 'Filter'
on the front panel of the SQ8L, if you still don't get it, and really
want to know what is going on.

[brok landers]

i've heard the FM8 is easier to use than the DX-7.

well, not that it really matters, but the fm8 has not really much to do with the dx7, their soundengine don't match sounwise ... fm8 is rather an simply outstanding synth based on general fm synthesis and can import dx patches, that's all ... but once these are imported, it totally depends on which patch you actually imported ...some sound alike somehow, some miss to match completely ... too many differences in the frequency ranges of the operators/carriers, envelopes, etc ... if you want to compare any fm-vsti to the dx7, the closest is still fm heaven from loftsoft ...

sorry for the hijack, back to topic ...