Hello,
Got my start with the Dance Music Manual and Idiot's Guide to Music Composition. Was hoping for some suggestions on books that will help advance my music writing capabilities? Just bought Fux's Counterpoint for example.
music composition books
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- KVRist
- 69 posts since 19 Aug, 2007
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Winstontaneous Winstontaneous https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=98336
- KVRAF
- 2592 posts since 15 Feb, 2006 from Another Green World
I've slowly been working my way through William Russo's "Composing Music: A New Approach"ClearVision wrote:Hello,
Got my start with the Dance Music Manual and Idiot's Guide to Music Composition. Was hoping for some suggestions on books that will help advance my music writing capabilities? Just bought Fux's Counterpoint for example.
http://www.amazon.com/Composing-Music-A ... 0226732169
I think it's a great book to start with because it 1) presupposes very little in terms of musical training/theory knowledge/experience 2) provides clear parameters for each piece, limiting options so you can focus on the task at hand.
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- KVRAF
- 2356 posts since 30 Sep, 2003 from Sunny Staffordshire
The Fux book is good... but probably won't be of great relevance to dance music (depending ofcourse on the approach you wish to take).
If you ask me, get Bach's Inventions and choral harmonizations, Mozart's piano sonatas and Chopin's preludes and etudes... then a couple of books on harmony, form and counterpoint. Work through them figuring out how they all tick. Following this a brief study of the 20th century rep. This will give you a real good basis on which to compose your own music.
Imo.
TB
If you ask me, get Bach's Inventions and choral harmonizations, Mozart's piano sonatas and Chopin's preludes and etudes... then a couple of books on harmony, form and counterpoint. Work through them figuring out how they all tick. Following this a brief study of the 20th century rep. This will give you a real good basis on which to compose your own music.
Imo.
TB
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- KVRAF
- 5703 posts since 8 Dec, 2004 from The Twin Cities
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- KVRian
- 649 posts since 18 Dec, 2004
Spot on.stimresp wrote:Have a gander at the Rikky Rooksby books: "How to write songs on..." Guitar and Keyboard - both good, but guitar one is more comprehensive.
http://www.amazon.com/How-Write-Songs-G ... 0879306114
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- KVRian
- 740 posts since 27 Sep, 2005 from UK
I wholeheartedly agree! This book is great - I haven't finished it, but even the exercises at the end of the 1st few chapters are great. Having said that I wouldn't recommend it for beginners - although if u persevere with it, u will be able to understand it. I can also recommend Music Theory book by M.Miller - very good stuff for beginners, better than his Composing book imo.herodotus wrote:The best book ever written about traditional composition.
Tbh though, the best way to learn music composition is to - 1)develop ur ear by listening to the music u like, & 2)trying to make similar music. This is hard at 1st, but the more u practice, the easier it will be to recognise patterns, sections, fills, bridges, etc. Books can help, but the best tuition is practicising composing urself - work on 1 project at a time, make sure u finish it before moving on.
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- KVRian
- 1305 posts since 30 Jan, 2004
Well,
Make sure you clarify for yourself if you want to "compose" or if you want to "songwrite". I know it sounds like verbiage, but I've been praised in both and I tell you they're two separate animals in that you should stay away from the one if you want to progress rapidly in the other.
One way for the songwriting area that can help you translate the songs from your head to the speakers is to copy all the chord progressions of songs that you like into their basic form, like 1-4-5 major, or 1-6-3-7 minor, or something like that. You'll get a good idea of how a progression makes you feel so that it's easy to recreate that feel in other material you write.
Then start to notice what melody lines you like and where they start or stop in relation to the chords under them. You'll be able to start making better melody lines when you notice that, for instance, when the last measure of a verse part is on the V chord and the melody note is, say, the third of the V chord. (This is where music theory REALLY comes in handy - in applying it to songs of the genre that you like the most and seeing how it fits together.)
Try some of those chord progressions in different keys (starting points) so if it were 1-4-5 in A Major, you could try it in G Major to get G-C-D. Same overall "feel" of the chord progression, but with a different flavor to it. Then try moving it up a whole step to see how THAT feels.
You'll quickly see that there's relatively few chord progressions in modern pop and it's offshoots. But with different keys, tempos, and melodies, you can really affect the feel and sound.
Some of this might come from a book, but most of it comes from just doing it over and over - trying some kind of chord progression, change one thing about it, change a different thing, and mentally (and emotionally) note how it sounds and feels.
Do this enough and you'll start to compose in your sleep. It won't take any effort and you won't even have to think anything up because it will all come pouring out all day long - you'll hate to even stop to go to the bathroom!
One book that does discuss theory for writing pretty well is "Applied Professional Harmony" by Peter Alexander. You might have to Google it.
- Paul
Make sure you clarify for yourself if you want to "compose" or if you want to "songwrite". I know it sounds like verbiage, but I've been praised in both and I tell you they're two separate animals in that you should stay away from the one if you want to progress rapidly in the other.
One way for the songwriting area that can help you translate the songs from your head to the speakers is to copy all the chord progressions of songs that you like into their basic form, like 1-4-5 major, or 1-6-3-7 minor, or something like that. You'll get a good idea of how a progression makes you feel so that it's easy to recreate that feel in other material you write.
Then start to notice what melody lines you like and where they start or stop in relation to the chords under them. You'll be able to start making better melody lines when you notice that, for instance, when the last measure of a verse part is on the V chord and the melody note is, say, the third of the V chord. (This is where music theory REALLY comes in handy - in applying it to songs of the genre that you like the most and seeing how it fits together.)
Try some of those chord progressions in different keys (starting points) so if it were 1-4-5 in A Major, you could try it in G Major to get G-C-D. Same overall "feel" of the chord progression, but with a different flavor to it. Then try moving it up a whole step to see how THAT feels.
You'll quickly see that there's relatively few chord progressions in modern pop and it's offshoots. But with different keys, tempos, and melodies, you can really affect the feel and sound.
Some of this might come from a book, but most of it comes from just doing it over and over - trying some kind of chord progression, change one thing about it, change a different thing, and mentally (and emotionally) note how it sounds and feels.
Do this enough and you'll start to compose in your sleep. It won't take any effort and you won't even have to think anything up because it will all come pouring out all day long - you'll hate to even stop to go to the bathroom!
One book that does discuss theory for writing pretty well is "Applied Professional Harmony" by Peter Alexander. You might have to Google it.
- Paul
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- KVRian
- 649 posts since 18 Dec, 2004
Excellent post PaulG. I have some questions...
Also, what are your thoughts on 7 chords in rock/pop music? For example, C-F-G7. Thanks for your input.
If I read this correctly, you would take C-F-G, maybe switch it to F-C-G, and play that for a while? Or am I missing it? Maybe you can provide some examples?PaulG wrote: {..snip..}
trying some kind of chord progression, change one thing about it, change a different thing, and mentally (and emotionally) note how it sounds and feels.
Also, what are your thoughts on 7 chords in rock/pop music? For example, C-F-G7. Thanks for your input.
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- KVRian
- 1305 posts since 30 Jan, 2004
It's more along the lines of numbering the chord progression, as in 1-4-5 and then just starting with whatever root note you want.
Your chosen instrument has easier keys (as in major or minor and not the physical keys) than others. For example, on guitar, it's really easy to play anything in A or E minor or major and it's relatives G/C major. C# minor is easy to do a chord progression, but you'd really never see anyone do a guitar-based song in, like A# or something, they'd just tune down a half step or play it as B natural.
So, it helps to know your instrument pretty well in it's ease of chord changes, not to make it hard on yourself when trying songwriting patterns, which is all a chord progression is, anyway. Point being is that you don't have to try 1-4-5 major in all 12 keys just to get a feel for it. I'd try it in the most well known ones - C major, D major & minor, E M/m, A M/m, maybe F# minor and C# minor.
Of course, when you're key is major, the 1-4-5 are major chords and when it's minor the 1-4-5 are minor chords. And your lead (melody) line is from the major scale if it's a major key and minor if it's a minor key. Now, in pop-ish music, a melody line won't change from the original key, meaning that it will generally always be C Major if that's your key/root even if you're playing an E minor chord underneath. The reason I bring this up is that jazz sometimes has an improvisational level which changes the scale to sometimes match the chord it's playing over, but you'll never EVER hear that in pop-ish radio sounding stuff.
(Okay, I know I said NEVER, but that doesn't mean you'll not find one or two somewhere. These are just the general guidelines to making something sound good and then you can always branch out if something sounds even better.)
The point being, 1-4-5 SOUNDS and FEELS a certain way, both major and minor. 1-6-3-7 minor SOUNDS and FEELS a certain way. (This happens to be my own favorite chord progression. If you can think of Sarah MacLauchlan's (spelling) "Building a Mystery" this is the main progression throughout the whole song. It's in C# minor, by the way. On guitar this works because the 3 is the low E Major chord and it's the lowest chord you can do in standard tuning. (See what I mean about knowing your instrument?))
7th chords are used quite a bit in bluesy-oriented rock, but as a rule for standard pop/rock/dance, they help bring the transition in from one part to another - like from the verse section to the bridge or from that to the chorus, and you'll frequently hear it (if it's done at all) on the V chord at the end of a progression indicating a change.
So if 1-4-5 in C Major was C major, F major, G major, you might do that progreasion like this -
C F G G
C F G G
C F G G
C F G G7
and this would transition to your next section somehow.
Often if you're looking for the transition effect, you might have the lead/vocal (solo or backup)/melody like actually focus on or around that 7th note which would then lead one note higher or lower to connect well to the melody line for the next part.
For melody writing, try to stick to small jumps - one or two notes max. You'll notice that most of the vocal lines of pop songs don't jump all over the place. They'll go up and down by 2nds or 3rds (one or two notes in the scale) and only jump for effect, and then after the jump, stay within one or two notes after that. The main reason is that it's hard for a singer to regain their mental balance if they're jumping all over the place. It's hard to follow for both the singer and the audience.
If you don't have a singer and it's just instrumental, try the same theory with the main melody line, like in a dance tune or something. The best melody lines are actually easy to hum - easy to remember, and good ones generally will really hold out the last note of a section on top of the chord it's under, and maybe trill or something. (This is more general, but it makes note of the end of a phrase being an importanr point in a melody line.)
One thing you can do to get better at melody or lead lines is to work out some of your favorites from your best loved songs and notice how much it jumps around (or doesn't), what scale degree it starts on (probably will be the 1, 3, or 5 of the root chord), what note it ends on (probably 1, 3, or 5 of either the root or the chord that's under it).
On a song you like, if the melody were a graph, get a sense for how smooth and straight the line is or does it go up from the beginning and continue that way. Stuff like that, think along those lines.
For melody lines, also try using the pentatonic scale of whatever key you're in. It can do wonders because it leaves out two notes in each version (major or minor) that tend to be ineffectual from a power and punch point of view. You can really have fun with melody lines based on the pentatonic scale. For minor you take out the 2 and the 6 and for major you take out the 4 and the 7.
Anyway, didn't mean to write a novel. If you need more help, info, or clarity, just ask.
- Paul
Edit - Oh, in major keys, the 1-5-6-4 (or a derivative) is something you'll hear quite a bit, too, in radio pop.
Your chosen instrument has easier keys (as in major or minor and not the physical keys) than others. For example, on guitar, it's really easy to play anything in A or E minor or major and it's relatives G/C major. C# minor is easy to do a chord progression, but you'd really never see anyone do a guitar-based song in, like A# or something, they'd just tune down a half step or play it as B natural.
So, it helps to know your instrument pretty well in it's ease of chord changes, not to make it hard on yourself when trying songwriting patterns, which is all a chord progression is, anyway. Point being is that you don't have to try 1-4-5 major in all 12 keys just to get a feel for it. I'd try it in the most well known ones - C major, D major & minor, E M/m, A M/m, maybe F# minor and C# minor.
Of course, when you're key is major, the 1-4-5 are major chords and when it's minor the 1-4-5 are minor chords. And your lead (melody) line is from the major scale if it's a major key and minor if it's a minor key. Now, in pop-ish music, a melody line won't change from the original key, meaning that it will generally always be C Major if that's your key/root even if you're playing an E minor chord underneath. The reason I bring this up is that jazz sometimes has an improvisational level which changes the scale to sometimes match the chord it's playing over, but you'll never EVER hear that in pop-ish radio sounding stuff.
(Okay, I know I said NEVER, but that doesn't mean you'll not find one or two somewhere. These are just the general guidelines to making something sound good and then you can always branch out if something sounds even better.)
The point being, 1-4-5 SOUNDS and FEELS a certain way, both major and minor. 1-6-3-7 minor SOUNDS and FEELS a certain way. (This happens to be my own favorite chord progression. If you can think of Sarah MacLauchlan's (spelling) "Building a Mystery" this is the main progression throughout the whole song. It's in C# minor, by the way. On guitar this works because the 3 is the low E Major chord and it's the lowest chord you can do in standard tuning. (See what I mean about knowing your instrument?))
7th chords are used quite a bit in bluesy-oriented rock, but as a rule for standard pop/rock/dance, they help bring the transition in from one part to another - like from the verse section to the bridge or from that to the chorus, and you'll frequently hear it (if it's done at all) on the V chord at the end of a progression indicating a change.
So if 1-4-5 in C Major was C major, F major, G major, you might do that progreasion like this -
C F G G
C F G G
C F G G
C F G G7
and this would transition to your next section somehow.
Often if you're looking for the transition effect, you might have the lead/vocal (solo or backup)/melody like actually focus on or around that 7th note which would then lead one note higher or lower to connect well to the melody line for the next part.
For melody writing, try to stick to small jumps - one or two notes max. You'll notice that most of the vocal lines of pop songs don't jump all over the place. They'll go up and down by 2nds or 3rds (one or two notes in the scale) and only jump for effect, and then after the jump, stay within one or two notes after that. The main reason is that it's hard for a singer to regain their mental balance if they're jumping all over the place. It's hard to follow for both the singer and the audience.
If you don't have a singer and it's just instrumental, try the same theory with the main melody line, like in a dance tune or something. The best melody lines are actually easy to hum - easy to remember, and good ones generally will really hold out the last note of a section on top of the chord it's under, and maybe trill or something. (This is more general, but it makes note of the end of a phrase being an importanr point in a melody line.)
One thing you can do to get better at melody or lead lines is to work out some of your favorites from your best loved songs and notice how much it jumps around (or doesn't), what scale degree it starts on (probably will be the 1, 3, or 5 of the root chord), what note it ends on (probably 1, 3, or 5 of either the root or the chord that's under it).
On a song you like, if the melody were a graph, get a sense for how smooth and straight the line is or does it go up from the beginning and continue that way. Stuff like that, think along those lines.
For melody lines, also try using the pentatonic scale of whatever key you're in. It can do wonders because it leaves out two notes in each version (major or minor) that tend to be ineffectual from a power and punch point of view. You can really have fun with melody lines based on the pentatonic scale. For minor you take out the 2 and the 6 and for major you take out the 4 and the 7.
Anyway, didn't mean to write a novel. If you need more help, info, or clarity, just ask.
- Paul
Edit - Oh, in major keys, the 1-5-6-4 (or a derivative) is something you'll hear quite a bit, too, in radio pop.
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- KVRist
- 105 posts since 4 Aug, 2008 from Atlanta, GA
Yes, that book by Ricky Rooksby is really good.
Another great book on songwriting is "Writing Music for Hit Songs" by Jai Josefs. This is the first book that really helped me to understand how chord progressions work and how to use them to produce certain effects in the song. It starts simply with scales and keys, but progresses into more advanced techniques like secondary dominants, modulations and chord substitutions. You can find it on Amazon.
Another good place on the web for chord progressions is MoneyChords.com. This site is a virtual catalog of different chord progressions and also links to other good sites. It doesn't just list out a chord progression, it also explains how and why it works - which really expands your musical understanding.
- Ken
Another great book on songwriting is "Writing Music for Hit Songs" by Jai Josefs. This is the first book that really helped me to understand how chord progressions work and how to use them to produce certain effects in the song. It starts simply with scales and keys, but progresses into more advanced techniques like secondary dominants, modulations and chord substitutions. You can find it on Amazon.
Another good place on the web for chord progressions is MoneyChords.com. This site is a virtual catalog of different chord progressions and also links to other good sites. It doesn't just list out a chord progression, it also explains how and why it works - which really expands your musical understanding.
- Ken