Magix drop Samplitude dongle...

[Oxytoxine]

sascha, a word on the multicore thingy?

EDIT:

i mean, making such a beauty not multicore-supported would be like constructing the fastest porsche on earth and then, in the end, replace the motor by a geriartic vw one, or like creating the most lovely painting and then in the end throw coffe over it, just in order that it is not too nice.. it would be a crime against humanity..

ok, but i'll shut up now, promised

[siriusbliss]

HI

The amount of host threads I have heard people bemoaning the lack of multi-cpu facility is untrue.

This technology has been around for years now and some companies seem to think it a 'luxury' extra!

As I said in my earlier post: having your coders actively go away and TAKE OUT such essential features that have been coded into an app seem ... well, insane!

Drop a few plugins, the 500 page printed manual, the box - but essential features!

Flipper.

Perhaps you don't understand how difficult it is to make even a basic application multi-processor efficient, let alone a complicated very time-dependent application work well.

Even with multi-core, a lot of plugins/synths don't properly handle multi-core distribution anyways.
So, IMO even to day it's a bit of marketing fodder.

Samplitude's hybrid engine came out ahead of all the multi-core hullaballoo anyways, so you're already getting better performance that way.
I will try to confirm if DLV has the multi-core 'turned on or not'. My assumption is that it IS turned on, since Pro has improved distribution in V10.1

Greg

[sascha]

> sascha, a word on the multicore thingy?

Hm... the last info I got was more the VW/coffee thing. Perhaps that might change, but hopefully not... who's gonna buy the bigger Samplitudes then

[Caco]

> sascha, a word on the multicore thingy?

Hm... the last info I got was more the VW/coffee thing. Perhaps that might change, but hopefully not... who's gonna buy the bigger Samplitudes then

Sascha, is there an upgrade path from Samp Studio to the bigger Samplitudes?

[MountainKing]

> sascha, a word on the multicore thingy?

Hm... the last info I got was more the VW/coffee thing. Perhaps that might change, but hopefully not... who's gonna buy the bigger Samplitudes then

So, in the end THAT is the only and main point!!!

Who'd buy the bigger versions?

I guess there ARE still customers around who would buy it but my suggestion would be another:

Why not throwing some products together in order to have a clear "product line"?

e.g. SMS14 + SAM SE = Samplitude (let's say) "Essential" (....hehe)!


You probably know what I mean. There are IMO too many Samplitude versions including the Music Studio of which we don't really know: is it referring to the pro product line or is it still a consumer product (from this corner it came along but is nowadays it's very close up to the pro ones - FINE!).


In the Consumer line Magix had further on the MusicMaker anyway!




This would be a clear product line in my eyes:

- Sequioa

- Samplitude Pro

- Samplitude Classic (where the limitations could be getting a little bit reduced as well)

- Samplitude Essential (or call it whatever you might like - but WITH certain features on board like Multicore Support, Mono Tracks, some more Inserts, AUX and Busses and so on).


Consumer corner:

- MusicMaker


Or even putting classic and essential together. Don't know...




So what?

The price for Samplitude Essential could be just around the Steinberg level!

BTW
Sorry for my strange english




Wieso unterhalten sich die ganzen Deutschen hier eigentlich nicht einfach auf deutsch?

[Sascha Franck]

Seriously, taking away multi CPU support from a stripped down version intentionally is... uhm, sorry, but I fail to be able to call it anything else but ridiculously stupid.

People buying the stripped down version will want to know whether something as essential as multi CPU support will work properly on their systems before they may update to the bigger version.

Really, this version seems less and less attractive to me.

[Kraznet]

Well it seems that multi cpu support is working on Samp DLV . I just checked and it's making use of all four cores of my Q9450 .

Regards
Kraznet

[headquest]

Really, this version seems less and less attractive to me.

Same here... it seems that the official limitations Magix list are just not the whole story.

Although their people have been immensely helpful in this thread, the point remains - as christianmusimaker pointed out earlier - that Magix do seem deliberately to have held back important details about the limitations, which rather puts me off dealing with them at all (any version)...

[I was also shocked to hear how expensive their S Pro updates are, which is off-putting too.]

On the plus side though, this is really good in terms of over-coming my gear lust issues

[Kraznet]

Just for fun I loaded up 60 variverbs in Samp DLV and its showing around 60% set to an Asio buffer size of 64 samples and scaling nicely over 4 cores .

[MountainKing]

the point remains - as christianmusimaker pointed out earlier - that Magix do seem deliberately to have held back important details about the limitations

Well, I guess the limitations were clear!

They are mentioned on the download / purchase site!

The limitations of SAM 10 compared to Sam 10 PRO (kraznet had explained most of them earlier here) can easily be seen here (version differences):
http://www.samplitude.com/eng/seq/vers_unt.html


So, as far as I can see it - everything's OK with their offer!

[siriusbliss]

Well it seems that multi cpu support is working on Samp DLV . I just checked and it's making use of all four cores of my Q9450 .

Regards
Kraznet

Thanks Kraznet for the confirmation.
(I wasn't going to be able to check until I got back in the studio this evening).

So (to be a smartass) - is there anything ELSE you guys EXPECT or DESIRE in DLV?

[headquest]

So, as far as I can see it - everything's OK with their offer!

That's reassuring then... I was still confused by earlier points in the thread it seems.

[siriusbliss]

Just for fun I loaded up 60 variverbs in Samp DLV and its showing around 60% set to an Asio buffer size of 64 samples and scaling nicely over 4 cores .

Excellent!

Greg

[Oxytoxine]

thanks for the honest answer. unfortunately (for us poor guys) you are so right..

> sascha, a word on the multicore thingy?

Hm... the last info I got was more the VW/coffee thing. Perhaps that might change, but hopefully not... who's gonna buy the bigger Samplitudes then

[christianmusicmaker]

So (to be a smartass) - is there anything ELSE you guys EXPECT or DESIRE in DLV?

Track limitations removed as well as VST and VSTi limitations. for £300 I would at *least* expect that.

Well you did ask

Way too pricey as is stands now. Drop the price address the limitations and I can demo the product (again)as a very likely buyer. Even without Variverb and the Vintage FX suite. I think VST,VSTi and Track limitations in the £50 + price bracket just look really odd these days and very much behind the times. At the bottom of Page 7 of this thread I listed some excellent hosts that offer *no* insert, VSti or Track limitations at sub £100...even sub £50!

It think Koolkeys put it something like this "paying more money for less". Makes no sense IMO and for me is a clear indication that Magix is totally out of touch or feeling no need financially to address users realistic track count expectations for a £295 product.

If you just look at SDLV alone...one might think it is a good deal but when compared to other packages at its price point, and every price point below it looks as if Magix are saying "it's Samplitude the brand which makes it worth £295" even though it's real value compared to other products IMO is less than £99. Which I will fully illustrate with numbers later...

I really do not think Magix needs the mid market. I think the company is small enough to financially not require major price reductions to compete on track counts, VST inserts and VSTi counts for instance. I have not read anything on the Magix forums that changes that viewpoint for me either.

No one forces another to buy a product but if Magix at some point IMO show some serious interest in the £300 price point or lower for products then I am sure many will be interested. I really do *not* see it happening anytime soon. But I will be happy to be proved wrong.

Even with multi-core, a lot of plugins/synths don't properly handle multi-core distribution anyways.
So, IMO even to day it's a bit of marketing fodder.

"Marketing fodder"?

I am surprised you said that. I have many hosts that have Multicore support and Q660's are getting cheaper and cheaper. I am yet to encounter *any* plugins that have issues with Multicore systems (freebies or commercial). Not saying there are none, but hardly enough to warrant not bothering with Multicore support in a lesser Samp version.

I think Sascha stated the real reason it may not appear in Music Studio...SDLV and Samp pro. Anyway let's see, but if Magix really want to add new features to Music studio and neglect Multicore support then I guess people within Magix must feel it is necessary to keep it out of Music studio to avoid dropped sales of Samp Pro and / or DLV.

Hm... the last info I got was more the VW/coffee thing. Perhaps that might change, but hopefully not... who's gonna buy the bigger Samplitudes then Wink

That IMO proves my point and many others on this thread that it's far too pricey. If Magix are worried about Multicore in Samp 15 then they are probably only too aware that DLV and Samplitude Pro are priced far beyond their realistic market values. If it's just a simple harm less multicore addition and Samp DLV and Samp Pro have so many other features to warrant their 345 and 999 Euro price tags then why the worry? There not nearly worth that are they really? Prices from yester year sorry.

I think if Multicore support finds its way into Music Studio 15 many will not bother with Samp. Bear in mind Music Studio 14 already has the same Midi and notation features as SDLV...and the exact same track limitation *64*.

I think Magix need to seriously review their product line and prices. SDLV is one product too many. I would drop either Music Studio or SDLV and Samplitude (former classic non download), products that are too similar with at least a £200 difference in price.

Vari verb or not, most users have their own choice reverbs. SDLV is almost amusingly priced.

As I said before let's see how badly Magix want the mid to low market. I think Music studio users badly want Multicore support. SDLV has it but has the same 64 track limit. I think if Magix asked 100 potential buyers what they would prefer added to Music Studio 15 I think 99% would ask for multi core support. It's 2008!

Ask the same 100 people what bullet point they would want removed, to bring down SDLV's price level to other hosts with 64 track limitations like...Music Studio 14 and Sonar home Studio (the real competitive products) I think again 99% will say "take out Variverb Pro". I cannot see what else is keeping the price so high apart from (hopefully not) the Samplitude brand name.

FWIW I am a Samplitude owner so I am not simply bashing the product...Magix need to join the rest of the host market into 2008. The SDLV price reflects the host market about 3 - 5 years ago.


Lets crunch some numbers...
There is only one way to avoid losing sales of Music Studio 15 and /or SDLV....drop one of the products. So Music Studio gets Multi core support and can be a serious competitor at the sub £100 price point or drop SDLV's price and do away with Music Studio. SDLV already supports four cores. Drop Variverb to bring the price down.

Drop the Vintage FX suite as well if need be from SDLV. Actually if the combined price of the VE suite (99 Euros download) and Variveb 169 Euros(download)= 268 Euros then removing them will surely radically bring the cost of SDLV down from 349 Euros easily to at least 100 Euros, but it should be 80 Euros, it's also very interesting to see that price is almost exactly the same as Music Studio 14...see what I mean?

If Magix really want to make money here a VE Suite and Variverb less version (Samplitude Premium or Essential)will sell *really well* IMO. At sub £100 it can easily replace Music Studio 14/15 which already has a version of the VE suite and Variverb and...IIRC even a version of one of the AM compressors once you register the package!

Just drop the price of SDLV, remove VE and Vari and drop MS15 from the product line or...drop SDLV and give MS15 multicore support. Any other course of action and I think neither MS15 nor SDLV will make any *real* impact. A huge wasted opportunity. Currently they negate each other in too many ways and neither are as competitive as they could so easily be.

I appreciate the Magix marketing machines are already in place for this year so maybe in 6 - 12 months Magix can sort their product line out based on the advice above. Food for thought.

Also FWIW I think the Magix guys on the Samp forums are really helpful and drop in very frequently to answer questions despite the IMO strange approach to marketing and forum access e.t.c. but anyway Magix pricing strucure needs a huge overhaul.