Magix drop Samplitude dongle...

[siriusbliss]

So (to be a smartass) - is there anything ELSE you guys EXPECT or DESIRE in DLV?

.......
I appreciate the Magix marketing machines are already in place for this year so maybe in 6 - 12 months Magix can sort their product line out based on the advice above. Food for thought.

Also FWIW I think the Magix guys on the Samp forums are really helpful and drop in very frequently to answer questions despite the IMO strange approach to marketing and forum access e.t.c. but anyway Magix pricing strucure needs a huge overhaul.

OK, points taken. Good synopsis.

...the point I was making re: plugins and multi-core, is that not ALL of them fully distribute efficiently across the cores (yet). Multi-core gives all the extra overhead on plugs that are truly distributed. Yes, they SHOULD distribute in ALL hosts that handle multi-core, but it's not necessarily the case (yet), so therefore it's still a bit of marketing-speak to say so.

Alright....carry on...

Greg

[MitchK1989]

I think most hosts, including samplitude, could do with a simplification as far as different versions go.

If they just offered one version for $500 that was fully featured, I'm sure it would sell like hotcakes. I like some of the things in samplitude, and if it wasn't so overpriced I'd recommend it to my windows based friends. As it is, I recommend them to check out sonar and live.

[koolkeys]

So (to be a smartass) - is there anything ELSE you guys EXPECT or DESIRE in DLV?

.......
I appreciate the Magix marketing machines are already in place for this year so maybe in 6 - 12 months Magix can sort their product line out based on the advice above. Food for thought.

Also FWIW I think the Magix guys on the Samp forums are really helpful and drop in very frequently to answer questions despite the IMO strange approach to marketing and forum access e.t.c. but anyway Magix pricing strucure needs a huge overhaul.

OK, points taken. Good synopsis.

...the point I was making re: plugins and multi-core, is that not ALL of them fully distribute efficiently across the cores (yet). Multi-core gives all the extra overhead on plugs that are truly distributed. Yes, they SHOULD distribute in ALL hosts that handle multi-core, but it's not necessarily the case (yet), so therefore it's still a bit of marketing-speak to say so.

Alright....carry on...

Greg

I disagree. When I got my dual core, the performance was more than noticeable. Even if a plugin doesn't support multi-core, the host can still support it and improve performance vastly. It's all about track distribution and putting one EQ on one core, another EQ on another core, etc. You don't have to have plugins fully supporting multi-core to see significant improvements. It's not marketing "fodder". It's truth. Multi-core gives better performance.

Brent

[Oxytoxine]

i was too polite to put it as hard as you did - but you absolutely nailed it!

another suggestion i'd have would be to merge music studio and the DVL to a kind of SAMPLITUDE PRODUCER EDITION. that could then be even a bit higher priced than sonar home studio or cubase essential.

So (to be a smartass) - is there anything ELSE you guys EXPECT or DESIRE in DLV?

Track limitations removed as well as VST and VSTi limitations. for £300 I would at *least* expect that.

Well you did ask

Way too pricey as is stands now. Drop the price address the limitations and I can demo the product (again)as a very likely buyer. Even without Variverb and the Vintage FX suite. I think VST,VSTi and Track limitations in the £50 + price bracket just look really odd these days and very much behind the times. At the bottom of Page 7 of this thread I listed some excellent hosts that offer *no* insert, VSti or Track limitations at sub £100...even sub £50!

It think Koolkeys put it something like this "paying more money for less". Makes no sense IMO and for me is a clear indication that Magix is totally out of touch or feeling no need financially to address users realistic track count expectations for a £295 product.

If you just look at SDLV alone...one might think it is a good deal but when compared to other packages at its price point, and every price point below it looks as if Magix are saying "it's Samplitude the brand which makes it worth £295" even though it's real value compared to other products IMO is less than £99. Which I will fully illustrate with numbers later...

I really do not think Magix needs the mid market. I think the company is small enough to financially not require major price reductions to compete on track counts, VST inserts and VSTi counts for instance. I have not read anything on the Magix forums that changes that viewpoint for me either.

No one forces another to buy a product but if Magix at some point IMO show some serious interest in the £300 price point or lower for products then I am sure many will be interested. I really do *not* see it happening anytime soon. But I will be happy to be proved wrong.

Even with multi-core, a lot of plugins/synths don't properly handle multi-core distribution anyways.
So, IMO even to day it's a bit of marketing fodder.

"Marketing fodder"?

I am surprised you said that. I have many hosts that have Multicore support and Q660's are getting cheaper and cheaper. I am yet to encounter *any* plugins that have issues with Multicore systems (freebies or commercial). Not saying there are none, but hardly enough to warrant not bothering with Multicore support in a lesser Samp version.

I think Sascha stated the real reason it may not appear in Music Studio...SDLV and Samp pro. Anyway let's see, but if Magix really want to add new features to Music studio and neglect Multicore support then I guess people within Magix must feel it is necessary to keep it out of Music studio to avoid dropped sales of Samp Pro and / or DLV.

Hm... the last info I got was more the VW/coffee thing. Perhaps that might change, but hopefully not... who's gonna buy the bigger Samplitudes then Wink

That IMO proves my point and many others on this thread that it's far too pricey. If Magix are worried about Multicore in Samp 15 then they are probably only too aware that DLV and Samplitude Pro are priced far beyond their realistic market values. If it's just a simple harm less multicore addition and Samp DLV and Samp Pro have so many other features to warrant their 345 and 999 Euro price tags then why the worry? There not nearly worth that are they really? Prices from yester year sorry.

I think if Multicore support finds its way into Music Studio 15 many will not bother with Samp. Bear in mind Music Studio 14 already has the same Midi and notation features as SDLV...and the exact same track limitation *64*.

I think Magix need to seriously review their product line and prices. SDLV is one product too many. I would drop either Music Studio or SDLV and Samplitude (former classic non download), products that are too similar with at least a £200 difference in price.

Vari verb or not, most users have their own choice reverbs. SDLV is almost amusingly priced.

As I said before let's see how badly Magix want the mid to low market. I think Music studio users badly want Multicore support. SDLV has it but has the same 64 track limit. I think if Magix asked 100 potential buyers what they would prefer added to Music Studio 15 I think 99% would ask for multi core support. It's 2008!

Ask the same 100 people what bullet point they would want removed, to bring down SDLV's price level to other hosts with 64 track limitations like...Music Studio 14 and Sonar home Studio (the real competitive products) I think again 99% will say "take out Variverb Pro". I cannot see what else is keeping the price so high apart from (hopefully not) the Samplitude brand name.

FWIW I am a Samplitude owner so I am not simply bashing the product...Magix need to join the rest of the host market into 2008. The SDLV price reflects the host market about 3 - 5 years ago.


Lets crunch some numbers...
There is only one way to avoid losing sales of Music Studio 15 and /or SDLV....drop one of the products. So Music Studio gets Multi core support and can be a serious competitor at the sub £100 price point or drop SDLV's price and do away with Music Studio. SDLV already supports four cores. Drop Variverb to bring the price down.

Drop the Vintage FX suite as well if need be from SDLV. Actually if the combined price of the VE suite (99 Euros download) and Variveb 169 Euros(download)= 268 Euros then removing them will surely radically bring the cost of SDLV down from 349 Euros easily to at least 100 Euros, but it should be 80 Euros, it's also very interesting to see that price is almost exactly the same as Music Studio 14...see what I mean?

If Magix really want to make money here a VE Suite and Variverb less version (Samplitude Premium or Essential)will sell *really well* IMO. At sub £100 it can easily replace Music Studio 14/15 which already has a version of the VE suite and Variverb and...IIRC even a version of one of the AM compressors once you register the package!

Just drop the price of SDLV, remove VE and Vari and drop MS15 from the product line or...drop SDLV and give MS15 multicore support. Any other course of action and I think neither MS15 nor SDLV will make any *real* impact. A huge wasted opportunity. Currently they negate each other in too many ways and neither are as competitive as they could so easily be.

I appreciate the Magix marketing machines are already in place for this year so maybe in 6 - 12 months Magix can sort their product line out based on the advice above. Food for thought.

Also FWIW I think the Magix guys on the Samp forums are really helpful and drop in very frequently to answer questions despite the IMO strange approach to marketing and forum access e.t.c. but anyway Magix pricing strucure needs a huge overhaul.

[Oxytoxine]

unfortunately, if you go to the samplitude forums, they do not at all appreciate the problem, for some of them this discussion (that was mentioned in a thread) is "whining" and we that we are writing this thread are not regarded as target audience. ok. that's nice to people that served as free betatesters for the buggy german versions over years. so i really feel a bit pissed at the moment and have to hold me back not to sing the praise of reaper.

i truly feel sympathy for the samplitude department of magix, it's clear that they cannot lower the prices to reaper niveau or they would go bankrupt, the poor guys are heavily cornered by reaper, and also logic (totally unqualified claim of mine).
it's in a way sad that reaper destroys the market with unrealistic low prices, in the same way like it's sad that many small enterprises are killed by aldi/walmart etc, but on the other hand there are still many good arguments for samplitude, and people would certainly be ready to pay more for a good product that they appreciate. but the invisible hand of adam smith is there, whether it's a nice thing or not.
i'm biologist, and things in the end really are easy. evolution. adapt or die. samplitude would have very good cards to stay on the winner side, as it has evolved over many years to a really strong and beautiful product, but now it must fight with the other bad boys. just snobbishly saying "oh, don't kill me, i'm so magnificient" is definitely the wrong strategy.
(this brable did not aim at sam devs which i highly respect).

[christianmusicmaker]

OK, points taken. Good synopsis.

...the point I was making re: plugins and multi-core, is that not ALL of them fully distribute efficiently across the cores (yet). Multi-core gives all the extra overhead on plugs that are truly distributed. Yes, they SHOULD distribute in ALL hosts that handle multi-core, but it's not necessarily the case (yet), so therefore it's still a bit of marketing-speak to say so.

Alright....carry on...

Greg

Heh

Cheers Greg. I hope my lengthy post did not come across the wrong way. It's just that we want our Samplitude Cake and we want to eat it.

I suppose I could have simply said drop VE + Vari (268 Euros combined download prices) and subtract that from the current 349 SDLV price = 81 euros. About right for SDLV IMO.

If magix ever do this...

* Limitations of the download version in comparison with Samplitude 10 box version:

* AM Suite not included
* Vintage Effect Suite not included
* Vari verb Pro not included
* Independence LE not included
* Impulse responses for Offline Convolution Reverb not included
* Content for Auto Jam Session not included
* Demo content not included
* Printed manual not included
* DVD not included
* Code Meter software removed

Samplitude 10 DLV is available now priced at €99.

...then there will be server trouble for the Magix Website. The good and very welcome type of server trouble. It...will...sell...IMO.

Let users choose if they want to pay the extra 268 Euros to get Vari and the VE suite in addition to a 99 EURO SDLV.

i was too polite to put it as hard as you did - but you absolutely nailed it!

another suggestion i'd have would be to merge music studio and the DVL to a kind of SAMPLITUDE PRODUCER EDITION. that could then be even a bit higher priced than sonar home studio or cubase essential.

Yeah I think I was a bit hard. (Sorry guys no harm meant). But the summary of that post is really listed above. Yes a merged higher priced product might even work but...really with no VE Suite or Vari IMO, Magix can comfortably break the sub 100 Euro barrier (with Mulitcore support). That would be ideal as 99 Euros is a real trigger or tipping point for buyers. To compete you need a competitive price.

Really Oxytoxine if you take out Vari and the VE suite (some of my favourite plugs ever by the way) you really are left with Music Studio 14 with a few more VST inserts and busses, and a slightly better VSTi limitation but the same 64 tracks.

Magix will easily maintain the Samplitude brand value as well IMO but crucially make a huge mark in the sub £100 bracket. Which of course opens the doors to more possible sales of....Samplitude Pro. More of these...£££'s

Want the AM suite, VE suite, Variverb Pro, more than 64 tracks, 8 inserts and 8 VSTi's? Then the only upgrade path is Samp Pro. So the incentive would still be there even if Samp Pro is still too pricey IMO(frankly) but far better still than the incentive to get SDLV and then consider Samp Pro as things stand now.

Or offer a cheaper SDLV 99 euros version and a cheaper Samp 10/11 DLV version upgrade path. Download version > Download version.

SDLV at 99 Euros is *far* more competitive. Even with 8 inserts and an 8 VSTi limit. Better without those limitations (especially when you consider Podium and Reaper have no track, VST or VSTi limits and have Multicore support)but I am certain many more currently on the fence will still bite at a 99 Euros price tag.

I need a serious Audio editor as my older Samp version does not work on Vista but price must be right.

[Sascha Franck]

First off: Thanks to Kraznet for checking about multi CPU ability. Good to see it's there. So please forget about my last comment.

So (to be a smartass) - is there anything ELSE you guys EXPECT or DESIRE in DLV?

A higher maximum VSTi seems to be essential for almost anybody around these parts (KVR that is). For me it would be, even if I'm not a VSTi maniac, for the very reasons explained already. And no, freezing, as excellent as it might be (and as it seems to be), simply doesn't help.
Should be at least 16 or unlimited. I'd rather prefer to see less internal plugins or less audiotracks or whatever. Compare it to Logic Express vs. Logic Studio. They're almost the same programs minus (quite) some plugins and a few features that may only be valuable to certain professionals. Exactly the right way to scale down a cheaper version.

Regadless how you put it, in case Magix wants some entry level customers, the price and offered features need to be competitive. And as the DLV version is already priced higher than some of the competitors, it will have a hard time to survive.

[siriusbliss]

I think perhaps the 99E pricepoint brings it too close to MS, which will just cause more confusion.
And IMO MS is already a more direct 'competitor' to Reaper anyways in the less-expensive end of the market.

Maybe DLV is a 'placeholder' while MS15 is in the works, I don't know. Just a supposition on my part.

Magix may come around to 'see the lite' - we'll see.

Greg

[Oxytoxine]

And IMO MS is already a more direct 'competitor' to Reaper anyways in the less-expensive end of the market.

Greg

greg;

have you ever had a close look at reaper? it's by no means a concurrence to ms, it's concurrence for sam (pro). they are of course different beasts and there are many areas where sam (still) is much more mature or simply superior, but also the opposite is true.
true, music studio has all the synths, reaper is "strictly recording". but in this department it smokes ms in all regards. reaper really is VERY capable and powerful, the low price point is misleading.

[deleted]

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[siriusbliss]

And IMO MS is already a more direct 'competitor' to Reaper anyways in the less-expensive end of the market.

Greg

greg;

have you ever had a close look at reaper? it's by no means a concurrence to ms, it's concurrence for sam (pro). they are of course different beasts and there are many areas where sam (still) is much more mature or simply superior, but also the opposite is true.
true, music studio has all the synths, reaper is "strictly recording". but in this department it smokes ms in all regards. reaper really is VERY capable and powerful, the low price point is misleading.

Yes, I have checked it out out of curiosity, but nothing about it blew me away. In my OPINION (not a flame), it's fast progress is due to it's emulation of many hosts features on the market.
And that's NOT taking away from the developers, or how far they have come in it's relatively short history. Currently it's progress resembles the early stages of many other host developments years ago, so my assumption is that it's price will change as the features are packed on.

I already do everything in Samplitude Pro now, so there's no reason to use anything else anyways (and I own other hosts that now just sit there ).

Greg

[koolkeys]

FWIW, I don't think Reaper is in the same league yet as Samplitude. MS, yes. But not Samplitude. Of course, it's much CHEAPER, but as you said, it could change. Maybe not. Who knows.

Brent

[Oxytoxine]

re my previous post - the more I look at music studio (which I paid for) the more featured Reaper (which I also paid for) looks - and certainly taking into account the development process of Reaper it seems much better value long term. However music studio might be easier to use and keep up with for someone who only wants something relatively simple with good functionality across midi and audio (in the same way the cubase le might be better for some people). Reaper is difficult in that the interface isn't that great and the development means that things change and you have to try and keep up with those changes. I still think music studio represents good value but I agree that Reaper has serious capabilities as a multitrack audio environment.
My next project will be in music studio though, as i still want to explore it more.

i totally agree - the development speed is putting me off, it forces one to always read the forums and to spend much time learning the new stuff. it's a good thing in sam and the ms to have the "security" to know that one can rely for a few years on what he has learnt.

for the interface: that's funny, for me it's the exactly opposite! ms/sam is very cluttered and much less intuitive for me, i'm much faster in reaper.
can you pinpoint what makes the difference for you?

i nevetheless always come back to the ms, i don't know whether it's because it simply was the first daw i got to know or why i'm so attracted to it.. maybe it's also simple because reaper lacks notation, then i would be nearly perfectly happy with it.

the only real "showstoppers" for me to work entirely in the ms are:
- no multicore support
- no midi loop/stacked recording possible
- bit rate / sample frequency restrictions
- related to the last point: the psychoacustic effect of having the feeling not to work in a high quality environment
(i know: i could simply buy sam and have all this - but i'm not sure i can justify the expense)

but on the other hand i love the ms! especially the combined piano roll/notation view is extremely handy, and of course generally the object-oriented approach. ah yes, and the graphic interface of the effects - hate that parametric stuff in reaper.

sorry for the mazy post; enjoy your next project in ms! it's definitely fun!

[Oxytoxine]

Yes, I have checked it out out of curiosity, but nothing about it blew me away. In my OPINION (not a flame), it's fast progress is due to it's emulation of many hosts features on the market.
And that's NOT taking away from the developers, or how far they have come in it's relatively short history. Currently it's progress resembles the early stages of many other host developments years ago, so my assumption is that it's price will change as the features are packed on.

I already do everything in Samplitude Pro now, so there's no reason to use anything else anyways (and I own other hosts that now just sit there ).

Greg

i totally respect and actually even share your opinion (also no flame intended on my side - i would love sam pro); if one already has sam pro then there is really not much point in looking at reaper, that's clear.. lucky guy you are!

my point was more that for starters and budget-limited persons it's hard to explain them why not give reaper a whirl - no bitrate/sample frequency limitations, no track/vst limitations, no ... limitations. the crippled down versions of sam on the other hand gives you all the pro FEELING of sam but obviously not the pro FEATURES.

now it's in a way sick that nowadays one can get a +/- pro daw for the price of a good bottle of wine.. but that's a typical human treat: if there is the option to have it i wan't it..give him an inch and he will take a mile..

[Oxytoxine]

(and I own other hosts that now just sit there ).

Greg

and here comes my adress..