Fairlight CMI Emulation - is it possible?

[MarsHottentot]

Seeing as you are the spearhead on this thread Mars - what is it, to you, from the Fairlight, other than working with an actual real unit, that you think would give you that creative inspiration?

I've said this a few times, allow me to elaborate and add to it (I think this will also address BertKoor's close but no cigar response). When working with something as archaic as the Fairlight, you're forced to think of different ways of coming up with what you want due to what it can't do as much as what it's capable of. Plus, being that it is what one could say is a MULE as opposed to a HORSE, it makes you consider what you are doing a bit more than a modern equivalent - it'll get the job done, but won't necessarily go about it smoothly. I think what a lot of you aren't able to wrap your head around is why I want something that is more difficult to use than what we have today. This is just the way I am. I don't like EVERYTHING to be a pain in the ass, but I crave forward momentum in my personal evolution. Sometimes the way to achieve this is by going back and appreciating a different work flow. Plus, I won't front, I think it would be insanely cool to make my kind of music on something that only the elites could use in my youth. A little oblique 80's fantasy, for sure.

why do you want to go back in time? any modern sampler will be far more musical then a fairlight. isn't the thole point of using studio gear using whats best and most effective? dont even remind of the spaghetti days. im glad i don't have to deal with all those wires and heavy equipment

We're talking about whether a Fairlight VSTi (imperceptibly light, no matter how deep) is possible or not. Do you know what a Fairlight is? Yes, it's 'Fair'ly heavy, but not covered in cables. It's the grandpappy of all DAW's and used huge floppy discs. You're thinking of a Modular Synth like an EMU modular,an ARP 2600, or a Moog modular. I do believe the majority of KVR-ists (myself included) would lose an arm for the honor of "dealing with all those wires and heavy equipment".

Did you get that from this?
http://un-certaintimes.blogspot.com/200 ... bbery.html
That's not a Fairlight, it's an EMU Modular. I have NO clue why they used that picture.
This is a Fairlight CMI III


This is a Fairlight CMI II


This is a Synclavier


Now get outta here, kid, ya bother me.

[beej]

When working with something as archaic as the Fairlight, you're forced to think of different ways of coming up with what you want due to what it can't do as much as what it's capable of.

Ok, and it's a valid, and understandable point.

Given that - do you think it's *possible* to recreate that same environment/experience in a software product, running on your laptop, connected to your MIDI keyboards and audio interfaces?

For me (and no I've not used one personally), the *experience* would be sitting in front of the real thing. And a software product isn't *ever* going to give you that experience. So the question is, would the experience that a software product gives you be enough of a self-contained enforced limited-and-different-way-of-working to satisfy your requirements?

[MarsHottentot]

When working with something as archaic as the Fairlight, you're forced to think of different ways of coming up with what you want due to what it can't do as much as what it's capable of.

Ok, and it's a valid, and understandable point.

Given that - do you think it's *possible* to recreate that same environment/experience in a software product, running on your laptop, connected to your MIDI keyboards and audio interfaces?

For me (and no I've not used one personally), the *experience* would be sitting in front of the real thing. And a software product isn't *ever* going to give you that experience. So the question is, would the experience that a software product gives you be enough of a self-contained enforced limited-and-different-way-of-working to satisfy your requirements?

To your first question: I'm not exactly sure, which is what this whole thread was intended to delve into. My lust for it makes me say "Yes", but my gut says "...no".

Of course, I'm willing to have a sampler that implements these type of limitations (within a sane reason, ie. no 5 minute load times ) much in the way that G-Media implemented the 8 sec rule for 'tape length' in their M-Tron Mellotron plug, or the way that 112b implemented 8-bit style sampling in their Mirage / Akai X7000 styled Morgana plug.

And while it's true that no emulation will ever give you the same experience as the real thing, that argument, here on KVR of all places, is a bit silly as we're deluged by and hungry for more when it comes to analog synth and classic drum machine emulations (CS-80v, the trillions of 808's, MiniMoogs, ARPs, Juno's, Jupiters, Prophets ad nauseum).

Am I right on this?
I think if the Fairlight or Synclavier were as desirable as a Polymoog (it's quite clearly not) or whatever, I wouldn't be having this conversation. The question would be 'when', not 'why'.

[beej]

My lust for it makes me say "Yes", but my gut says "...no".

And that's my feeling too. Overall, I think a software "emulation" still wouldn't give you that "Wow this is a *Fairlight*" feeling, and instead would just make you realise how antiquated it really is.

And while it's true that no emulation will ever give you the same experience as the real thing, that argument, here on KVR of all places, is a bit silly as we're deluged by and hungry for more when it comes to analog synth and classic drum machine emulations (CS-80v, the trillions of 808's, MiniMoogs, ARPs, Juno's, Jupiters, Prophets ad nauseum).

Sure. And cool though these tools undoubtedly are, a CS80, a Prophet 5, a Jupiter 8 - whatever - it just doesn't even come close to the experience of sitting in front of a real one, to touch, to smell, to fondle lovingly, and even, god forbid, to actually *play*...

Plus, those synths can be tweaked like the real thing, and sound broadly the same. A Fairlight, is a sampler, and can't really be "tweaked" in the same way - for this, Fairlight samples are far less limiting than Jupiter-8 samples.

And my gut feeling is if you remove that physical feeling you just leave the software, I think most people would be rather underwhelmed...

I think if the Fairlight or Synclavier were as desirable as a Polymoog (it's quite clearly not) or whatever, I wouldn't be having this conversation. The question would be 'when', not 'why'.

Well, I think they are as desirable in many ways. Certainly the Fairlight and the Synclavier were *absolute* objects of lust back in my day, the stuff of the superstardom elite.

The point is, computer-based equipment just doesn't keep it's value like "real" instruments. Most of us can look back at a 30-year synth and go "awesome!", but most of us look back at a thirty-year old computer and go "Wow, how did we ever actually *do* anything with them?"

Would I love to play with a real Fairlight or Synclavier?

Absolutely.

A software/plugin version..?

Yes, out of curiosity. But I think I'd be able to satisfy that pretty quickly, and move on.

Anyway, interesting conversation, thanks. I've pretty much said all I need to say on this, now...

[MarsHottentot]

And that's my feeling too. Overall, I think a software "emulation" still wouldn't give you that "Wow this is a *Fairlight*" feeling, and instead would just make you realise how antiquated it really is.

And my gut feeling is if you remove that physical feeling you just leave the software, I think most people would be rather underwhelmed...

Very true. Most people would be underwhelmed by the... antiquation (wow, wasn't sure if that was a word). Not me but, yeah, most.

Anyway, interesting conversation, thanks. I've pretty much said all I need to say on this, now... Smile

THANK GOD!

[LBN]

Of course I found that everything I ended up making with it sounded like Art of Noise rejects but it's fun.

Really? That hasn't happened to me. In fact, the stuff I've done with the Fairlight samples I have don't really sound like anything particularly 80's beyond the character. Don't get me wrong - it's sounds like a Fairlight - but the tracks themselves aren't 80's retro in the least.

Yeah, it was just the way the samples inspired me, having grown up listening to lots of Art of Noise and other Trevor Horn-produced stuff. Don't get me wrong, there are many usable samples on the Pro-Rec CD.

To me, the sound of the Fairlight is all about the famous library of samples we've all heard on hundreds of songs from the '80s. I don't think there was anything magical about the sound other than the low-fi (by today's standards) AD/DA converters. But once the samples were buried in the mix you really couldn't tell. I don't think it would be too difficult to achieve that low-fi sound using plug-ins. Still, it might be useful if someone wanted to model a filter based on the Fairlight.

It might be interesting to compose on an actual Fairlight as an experiment. But I think I would eventually become frustrated by its limitations after too long and yearn for more possibilities as I'm sure the owners of original CMIs did (more memory, more sampling time, better AD/DA converters, better software, etc.). Is anyone really convinced that someone in 1982 would choose a Fairlight over a copy of Kontakt that was magically transmitted back in time (with appropriate hardware to run it)?

[tomg]

Did you get that from this?
http://un-certaintimes.blogspot.com/200 ... bbery.html
That's not a Fairlight, it's an EMU Modular.

Now get outta here, kid, ya bother me.

Kinda quick on the trigger eh.. Scroll down that page a bit and you'll see this.

[MarsHottentot]

Did you get that from this?
http://un-certaintimes.blogspot.com/200 ... bbery.html
That's not a Fairlight, it's an EMU Modular.

Now get outta here, kid, ya bother me.

Kinda quick on the trigger eh.. Scroll down that page a bit and you'll see this.

Well, I read the article. It was one of the things that got me to the point of this lovely thread filled with hope. But I'm thinking that the original poster did not. Reading chicken muffin's post sure does lead me to believe it.

Here, let's read it together:

why do you want to go back in time? any modern sampler will be far more musical then a fairlight. isn't the thole point of using studio gear using whats best and most effective? dont even remind of the spaghetti days. Im glad i don't have to deal with all those wires and heavy equipment Rolling Eyes

Hmmm...spaghetti days... wires and heavy equipment. That sounds far more like a gigantic modular synth than a Fairlight to me. Just like the one on the top of that page, right under the title 'Fairlight Robbery'!
Not to mention I had already explained my reasons for wanting something that isn't 'the best and most effective'. C'mon, now... I didn't respond in much more than a humorous manner. I mean, he obviously doesn't care (probably downloading another 808 plug as I write this ).

Okay, look. My attitude is rough because some seem to not be reading the top post - just having knee jerk reactions to the subject line. Any of you would react in the same way were the tables turned.

Regardless, this thread is dead - I've got my answer. And remember - this will be in the archive.

[Arcvidean]

Shame the thread's dead. I personally would be interested in a Fairlight emulation. I can't add anything to the technical side of the question, but for me the Fairlight has a distinguished sound for me in the same way that the Mellotron has. It's not about how versatile the instrument is, that's not the point, I have plenty of uberversatile synths that I would not like to be without but I still have room for something that has has a certain character for me.

I'm not particularily given over to nostalgia and most emulations have failed to fire up my interest, it's just a personal interest thing.

Arcvidean.

[Rangtangtang]

The fairlight is just an early very expensive hardware sampler that does not realy compare whith todays computer sampler's. It might have it's sound, but that could be incorperated into software sampler's? The fairlight library could possibly be of use if it is every keyboard note-multisampled?

[BertKoor]

So the challenge is this: Can the Fairlight be properly emulated?

Have a look at the Mame project for instance. All sorts of 80's hardware and chips can be emulated on an average today's PC, so that the old software can function properly. If it works for an arcade machine, it could be used for a music machine also. They are both just microprocessors with added periferal devices.

So the answer is clearly Yes, it IS possible. The CMI Fairlight runs on a Motorola 6800 processor, and there are emulations for it. So the original Fairlight software can be used unmodified! Legality is another topic ofcourse... The real challenge would be to emulate the custom extra boards.

So it can be done, if one has the stamina and drive to dive into it.

[arakula]

So the answer is clearly Yes, it IS possible. The CMI Fairlight runs on a Motorola 6800 processor, and there are emulations for it. So the original Fairlight software can be used unmodified!

CMI II(x) runs on 2 6809 processors in interleaved mode, but still - emulating that is no problem for any 2GHz machine.

The real challenge would be to emulate the custom extra boards.

Exactly; analyzing these and creating an abstraction that's good enough to convey the original sound characteristics is quite a job.

[Diginerd]

Well, so I suppose it's about time I came back to the surface...

I (Yes, me personally) made the "Digital Domain" Fairlight IIx library disk with the blessing of Fairlight ESP (One of the numerous phoenixes that has arisen from the ashes of the original Fairlight over the years). I was politely asked to stop using the "Digital Domain" name by a lawyer representing Bob Katz who was trying to make out that I was "Passing off as him". I had no idea who the hell Bob Katz was, nor that there was any other business operating under that name (In the UK at least)! Anyway, as I had a budget of 3 pennies I changed the name to "Domain" and later to Xtal. Blah..

This is the disk that most folks refer to as the ProRec CD. If you bought it in the last 7 years or so It's likely a pirate copy (Loooong story), made BY Pro Rec themselves. They had only 100 or so of the 500 limited edition run that was produced. They ran out pretty quickly and then repressed it themselves multiple times. The sad thing is they even manage to get Fairlight AU to endorse it as the real deal. Well the contents are about as accurate as you can get, it's just that the disk itself is an illegal copy. Not sure how they have been selling it, but the original manual that I shiped alongside it gave the pitches and some of the history behind each sound.

The sample CD was recorded at a studio up in Hull (UK) on a Sound Tools system running on an Atari Mega 2 over a period of 4 days somewhere back in the early 90s. At the time it was about as state of the art as you get (Pro Tools had JUST been released in 4 track version, but no on had it).

The sounds on that disk are far more representative of the sound of the CMI than most folks will accept as being the case. Stuff them into a decent sampler and you're well on your way. I personally use an EMU EIV Turbo with them and get 98% the way there.

So here's my 2c on a CMI IIx plug-in. The Fairlight is a "Whole" experience, something not easily copied with just a sonic emulation. Which is somewhat counter intuitive as you can pretty easily mimic a lot of the sonics with a decent sampler. No Kontakt won't do it as its transpoing sucks

Transposition and filtering are the two main things that give the CMI IIx its sounds. Trivia, IIx = II + MIDI, mine was an early prototype.

To replicate a CMI IIx with greater precision than simply sampling the disk and then working with it in your own sampler wouldn't be that hard these days with convolution technology.

All it takes is an original machine a known audio input and then the audio output of the device. Cycle through each parameter (Each of which is remarkably coarse I might add!) and bingo the model is built.

Where it falls apart is in the UI and the whole manner in which one would approach using the CMI.

However, if any of you are familitar with soundtracker, OctaMED and sequencer's of that ilk then you're 99% of the way there in terms of how you would program a Fairlight of that vintage with Page R.

You have 8 voices, you can load 8 samples and play each monophonically, or in basic mode 8 voices of one sample, and any combination in between. Each voice (Sample) is EXACTLY 16KB in size. You want a longer samplingtime? Drop the sample rate. Better quality, increase it but your samples get really short.

After that if you want more than 8 sambples you'll need to have a multi-track sync the Failight to a tone on it and layer multiple sequences each of no more than 8 mono parts.

That's about it. Really. The rest is a bunch of fluff bandied about by people who have never touched a real Fairlight.

So, I suppose at this point I'd better open the foor to the various folks on "teh interwebz" who'd like to get into a heated discussion about something that they have no personal experience of.

If anyone whould like to talk with reasonable sense I'm also all ears and happy to chat.

In all seriousness, I had dreamed of the idea of such a plugin, but to be honest it's simply not worth it these days.

Now, a CMI III emulator could be intereting, although a little tough to copy with it's 100Khz (Ya, you read that right) max sampling rate. Also, there is no way in hell that the library would be possible to licence. It was tough enough geting the rights to the II (Pink) Library.

One seriously overlooked aspect of the CMI is that it was a really monsterous additive Syntheizer, the likes of which were not to be seen again until Kawai got silly close (At 16 bit).


Rob (D'Oh ) Brady

[beej]

Nice post - thanks for that Rob!

[teacue]

@robb
Thanks a lot for this very interesting insight.
In the meantime I received some days ago the CD I ordered from Pro Record and it has a Digital DOMAIN Label on it.
There is also a number under the label: WRB 181172/01

Now according to what you write this is an illegal copy?
If so, it is really quite sad.
Is there nothing you can do?

There is no manual on the CD, it is an audio CD.
But on the Pro Record website: http://www.pro-rec.com/samplecds.html
one can find informations about the 35 tracks of the CD, the pitch and the names of the samples and a short description of the samples.
There is also a hint with the advice to try to find the original loop.
BTW this is not always so easy as it seems that some samples of the CD have been recorded looped and some not.

Are these the original informations you gave?

After checking the samples my first impression was that though this is an interesting collection of sounds, this is finally not extremely special and nothing that one would not find in a standard library of any actual software sampler.
But they are the Fairlight samples and probably one of the first library of this kind and a model for all following sample library.

And indeed the samples sound like a Fairlight sounded nowadays when the artists used the factory library and I must say I love to be able to play these sounds.
I find also really nice to be able today to mix a Mellotron flute with the Arr1 sample

So thanks a lot for your work and I hope this piracy thing can be solved.

Best regards