KVR Mix Workshop - Week 3: Kick and Bass

[yonyz]

a7, don't worry.
I haven't got it yet, too.

I'm using Gmail which is perfect.

By the way, I like your kick sound.

Also, what de-esser have you used?
As you can hear in my file, I haven't used one at all.

[asnor]

Yonyz, thanks for letting me know. I've been slowly migrating to gmail, because yahoo seems to be deleting some of my old emails. But, these past few days, it's just been acting weird. I think I'm going to have to just cut and run instead of making a gradual transition.

As far as a de-esser, I haven't been using one. I'm still coming to grips with dynamics processors with more than 1 knob

[yonyz]

I'm still coming to grips with dynamics processors with more than 1 knob

Did you just manually split the "shh" part and lowered it's volume?
It's very simple to do with this vocal, but it wouldn't be that easy with some other vocals.

[Kim Lajoie]

Glad you're all finding this useful.

Just a quick note to say my internet access at the studio is borken so it might be a few days before I get the Week 4 material out.

I can read and respond here, but I can't deal with emails and I can't download (or upload) audio at this stage. It could be a few days, not sure. Sorry guys.

-Kim.

[Kim Lajoie]

Ten years ago I would have given my right arm for tutorial like this.

Same here... although ten years ago I probably wouldn't have known enough to get decent value out of it!

-Kim.

[asnor]

Did you just manually split the "shh" part and lowered it's volume?
It's very simple to do with this vocal, but it wouldn't be that easy with some other vocals.

Actually, that's exactly what I did. Well, almost. I didn't split that much, just large sections, then I went through and edited the take envelopes by hand. So, the vocals and, to a smaller extent, the bass, have manual compression and de-essing applied.

I did quite a bit of voice over stuff a while back, doing the same thing. That was thousands of clips, so this vocal was a piece of cake, in comparison.

Any way you look at it, it's a lot of work, and I'm sure most people would prefer using a nice transparent compressor, or limiter. But, I like the results I get from it, so it's worth the effort, for me.

[yonyz]

Don't worry, Kim, it would only make us more eager to work on Week 4.
Also, it would give us some time to polish are work that was done so far.

[Kim Lajoie]

I might need to figure out something similar for this project, since my plug count is starting to get up there, and we aren't even half way through yet.

I've got a fairly aged computer (probably about four years old - one of the early dual core Athlons) and I can run the whole project in realtime including running SampleTank2 for the non-vocal non-guitar tracks. So don't feel like you need to pile on stacks of plugins to get a good sound - in fact the more plugins you use, the more difficult it is to control them.

Having said that, I'd expect the most heavy processing to be done to these four foreground tracks. They're the most prominent and benefit from the most attention and "special" character processing. Instruments further in the background usually need little more than regular everyday eq, compression and saturation.

-Kim.

[spinedoc]

Did we lose Cordelia and Spinedoc?

Hey a7,
I'm still here. I didn't have any FTP uploading software (my computer isn't internet connected, I borrow this one for browsing) so I send my files directly to Kim (thanks, Kim). I sent it late last night, so it should be up soon.

This week was hardest for me, especially the kick. I didn't have a harmonic exciter, so I downloaded JB SEND and Voxengo Overtone GEQ and used those, but I've never used an exciter and didn't know what I was doing. When I listen to the produced files I get distracted by the reverbs.

Anyway, I'll take a listen to the posted files this afternoon. I hope everyone had fun!

I am still here as well. I uploaded a wav file early monday by accident then sent the mp3 file monday afternoon. I guess Kims computer went down before he had time to add me to the listing for week 3.

I swear that kick sounds exactly like a basketball hitting a gym floor, and I mean that in a good way Its very interesting how he pulled that sound out of the raw kick.

This really is an education about how hard it is to match a sound. I had no idea it would be this difficult. And yes the reverb does make it a lot harder for me too.

At some point, possibly when all is done, I would love it if kim would give us some screen shots of his settings on his plugs. I use the am-suite stuff extensively as well and would like to see his settings.

[Kim Lajoie]

I swear that kick sounds exactly like a basketball hitting a gym floor, and I mean that in a good way Its very interesting how he pulled that sound out of the raw kick.

Have a listen to a song called "In the musicals" by Bjork, from the album "Selmasongs" (soundtrack from the film "Dancer in the Dark").

This really is an education about how hard it is to match a sound. I had no idea it would be this difficult.

That's why it's dismaying when people try to match the bassline or the guitar sound from their favourite artists. Consider how difficult this is - even when I'm giving you the raw files, writing paragraphs about how I did it and even providing individual feedback. By all means use the sounds of your favourite artists as inspiration and ideas, but translate - don't copy. What we hear usually shows up in the music we make anyway, but it's filtered through our interpretation, our personal taste, the creative direction of our projects and the gear we use.

Don't try to make cloned music - it is impossible.
Don't try to make original music - you do it automatically.
Instead, try only to make good music.

At some point, possibly when all is done, I would love it if kim would give us some screen shots of his settings on his plugs. I use the am-suite stuff extensively as well and would like to see his settings.

I've thought about it, but I'm not sure how useful it would be. A lot of the tools I use have a "character" sound - the exact values on the interface are not exactly what's happening to the sound. I have to tune it by ear. I'd much rather say something like "dip the lower mids" than "pull 240Hz down by 9dB".[1] You'll learn more (in training your ears and learning your tools) by trying to find the sweet spot yourself.

Even if you had all the same plugins as me, you'll learn far less if I provide presets (this is effectively what screenshots are) than if you have to find the settings yourself and build the mix on your own from scratch. Haha, tough love. The "produced" tracks should be enough help - use your ears!

-Kim.

[1] Those who've recieved individual advice from me will probably note that occasionally I'll go to the "pull 240Hz down by 9dB" end of things - but this is always after hearing an attempt. It's more a way of saying "you're almost there, just nudge it a bit in this direction".

[asnor]

Ok, here's my notes.

Bass:

- Minor volume envelope edits to smooth out the levels where the slides are and where the bass swells in the sustained parts.
- Voxengo TapeBus, with the tape compression setting.
- BootEQ-a, -8db @ 200hz w/Hi-Q enabled, shape @ 4 oclock
- BootEQ-b, -8db @ 350hz w/Hi-Q enabled, shape @ 12 oclock
- Oligarc Drive, input @ 10 oclock, drive @ 1 oclock
- JMS HiRes EQ, -12db shlf @ 50hz 1.5Q, -5db @ 100hz 2.0Q

Kick:

- Voxengo TapeBus, with the tape compression setting.
- JMS HiRes EQ, +1.5db @ 50hz 1.5Q, -12db @ 200hz 0.5Q, -12db @ 200hz 2.0Q, +3db @ 1.4khz 0.85Q, +12db @ 7.2khz 2.0Q
- Camel Crusher, distortion on, w/ tube @ 12 oclock, compressor on @ 12 oclock, phat mode on, filter off, master on.

I still need to adjust the snap on the kick up a little since, as Kim pointed out, it sounds like it is hitting the same spot as the articulation in the bass.

But, that's it.

[asnor]

I swear that kick sounds exactly like a basketball hitting a gym floor, and I mean that in a good way Its very interesting how he pulled that sound out of the raw kick.

Have a listen to a song called "In the musicals" by Bjork, from the album "Selmasongs" (soundtrack from the film "Dancer in the Dark").

This really is an education about how hard it is to match a sound. I had no idea it would be this difficult.

That's why it's dismaying when people try to match the bassline or the guitar sound from their favourite artists. Consider how difficult this is - even when I'm giving you the raw files, writing paragraphs about how I did it and even providing individual feedback. By all means use the sounds of your favourite artists as inspiration and ideas, but translate - don't copy. What we hear usually shows up in the music we make anyway, but it's filtered through our interpretation, our personal taste, the creative direction of our projects and the gear we use.

Don't try to make cloned music - it is impossible.
Don't try to make original music - you do it automatically.
Instead, try only to make good music.

At some point, possibly when all is done, I would love it if kim would give us some screen shots of his settings on his plugs. I use the am-suite stuff extensively as well and would like to see his settings.

I've thought about it, but I'm not sure how useful it would be. A lot of the tools I use have a "character" sound - the exact values on the interface are not exactly what's happening to the sound. I have to tune it by ear. I'd much rather say something like "dip the lower mids" than "pull 240Hz down by 9dB".[1] You'll learn more (in training your ears and learning your tools) by trying to find the sweet spot yourself.

Even if you had all the same plugins as me, you'll learn far less if I provide presets (this is effectively what screenshots are) than if you have to find the settings yourself and build the mix on your own from scratch. Haha, tough love. The "produced" tracks should be enough help - use your ears!

-Kim.

[1] Those who've recieved individual advice from me will probably note that occasionally I'll go to the "pull 240Hz down by 9dB" end of things - but this is always after hearing an attempt. It's more a way of saying "you're almost there, just nudge it a bit in this direction".

So, I guess, comparing notes amongst ourselves is probably of limited value.

[Kim Lajoie]

So, I guess, comparing notes amongst ourselves is probably of limited value.

No, not at all!

I think it's a different kind of relationship. It's different because this was originally my mix. Comparing your notes among yourselves is interesting - particularly when comparing the different versions of the audio. But this works because there's no right or wrong - just different sounds. If I posted my settings, I think it might come across like mine are the "right" settings (which they are), and that sets a different tone to the discussion.

This workshop isn't about recreating an exact replica of my mix. It's about using the same principals that I used, but applying them to your studio, to your tools and to your personal taste.

Teach a person to fish, and all that.

-Kim.

[asnor]

Teach a person to fish, and all that.

-Kim.

Can't argue with that

[Kim Lajoie]

Cordelia's version is now available!

-Kim.