KVR Mix Workshop - Week 4: Drum Kit

[Kim Lajoie]

Stereo pairs with the untreated toms, the room mics and the overheads for the cymbals and perhaps a mono track for the hat (if you mic'ed it separately) would complete the drum mix.

On Flesh And Bone, I added some subtle (stereo) room reverb and compression. The reverb adds a little air around the drum kit - without it the drums sound a little like they're being played in a vacuum. It helps the kit sit better in the mix, making it less obvious that they're samples.

-Kim.

[Kim Lajoie]

Individual tracks are now up (linked at the top of the first post).

-Kim.

[Kim Lajoie]

This workshop series is an excellent idea.

It was SARcazm's excellent idea.

-Kim.

[Kim Lajoie]

So four people want me to write something like this, but focussed on electronic drums? Four?

-Kim.

[Daniel LaRusso]

Another question i have is in regards to layering kicks. This is a trick that Eric Prydz tends to use but there are many who do employ it. Basically, at the 2nd drop (typically), a heavier kick comes in, its much meatier yet doesn't muddy the mix... How do you think this is acheived? Can you send this second kick straight to the master channel, or is it boosting the lows on your existing kick? For an example go to ericprydz.com and listen to aftermath (the heavy kick comes in at 2.30). Sorry for jacking this thread too, mods move it if you see fit! Cheers

You'll have to point me to the song. I listed to a low quality version on , but it didn't sound like the kick at the end was any heavier than any other part of the song.

-Kim.

Yeah sorry for the poor linkage. I remembered where a good example of this kick layering technique was... http://www.mixdepot.net/TravisBedel/dow ... 0Cobalt%20 When the second kick come in you'll notice it! It's only after 20- 30 seconds mind.

Be interesting to see what you guys think.

Cheers

[Daniel LaRusso]

So four people want me to write something like this, but focussed on electronic drums? Four?

-Kim.

Gotta be more than that!

[Kim Lajoie]

I remembered where a good example of this kick layering technique was... http://www.mixdepot.net/TravisBedel/dow ... 0Cobalt%20 When the second kick come in you'll notice it! It's only after 20- 30 seconds mind.

Be interesting to see what you guys think.

Cheers

It sounds just like it's been highpassed[1]. If you're doing something like this, it's important to make sure the main kick (the one that's being used throughout most of the song) is mixed correctly. The amount that you use the lighter kick will determine how extreme your processing can be. If you're using the lighter kick for a lot of the song, you might only be able to get away with shortening it and maybe dipping the subbass a little. On the other hand, if you're using the lighter kick only for a few spots (like in the file you linked to), you can be a lot more brutal in cutting the bass. Of course, the more extreme your processing it, the more dramatic the change will be when you bring in the main kick.

Not sure if that was the kind of advice you were after.

-Kim.

[1] And maybe shortened a bit, but it could just be the body of the kick being highpassed out.

[yonyz]

So four people want me to write something like this, but focussed on electronic drums? Four?

-Kim.

Make it five.

[pandashake]

I wasn't planning on doing a tutorial on electronic drums and percussion. Do you think something like that could be useful?

It would be to me - I don't know about anyone else. My live set-up consists of a DrumStation, a BassStation, and me playing guitar. Some day I'd actually like to record an album that more "reflects" my live show, so tips on mixing the 808/909 sounds are always welcome.

[yonyz]

Does anyone know how to remove the harsh of the vocal at 00:28?
I lowered it's volume with a volume envelope, but I guess it will come back at higher listening levels.

[egbert]

Hi Kim,

Thanks very much for putting the rest of the files up. Really appreciate it. I take it from your post above that the room ambience was created with a room reverb patch rather than with room mics.

I am working on improving my drum engineering and was very interested in what you said about squashing the transient with toms. This also feeds into mic choices I suspect.

Large diaphragm dynamics like the Sennheiser MD421 have been go to tom mics for decades and are used by the engineers in a lot of premium drum sample libraries like the Platinum Samples sets. These days however, a lot of faster dynamics (with lighter more responsive diaphragms) like the Audix drum mics or condensers mics are being put forward for tom micing.

The thing about mics like the 421 is that they can't really capture the transient like a condenser would - they are by their very nature compressing the signal and supplying some Eq. What do you use for tom micing and does this sort of thing (fast vs slow response) figure in your thinking when it comes to producing good tom sounds.

Regards,
Egbert

[Kim Lajoie]

Does anyone know how to remove the harsh of the vocal at 00:28?
I lowered it's volume with a volume envelope, but I guess it will come back at higher listening levels.

Get it as acceptable as you can now, but don't dwell on it. Keep it in mind and then revisit it when the mix is almost complete. Either the problem will have disappeared in the mix, or it will be pretty obvious what you need to do to fix it (probably a narrow EQ cut on just that segment).

-Kim.

[EzDjZ]

So four people want me to write something like this, but focussed on electronic drums? Four?

-Kim.

Include 1 more please, and I'm sure a lot more people would love the idea

[Kim Lajoie]

I take it from your post above that the room ambience was created with a room reverb patch rather than with room mics.

Actually, my point was that all the drums in Flesh And Bone are samples. I didn't use any microphones. And it wasn't even a particularly fancy sample library.

What do you use for tom micing and does this sort of thing (fast vs slow response) figure in your thinking when it comes to producing good tom sounds.

It's actually been a while since I've miked a kit.

Which mikes you use (and how you mike the kit overall) depends on a few factors.

If there's not much time, I'll go with whatever the drummer has used before on his or her kit. Each kit/drummer combination is unique, so going with what's been used before will at least get decent results. If the drummer has no idea, I'll just grab whatever is in the studio. Since I'm pressed for time, I'll just try to capture a clean sound with the aim of adding any funk in the mix.

If I've got time to experiment, I then have to decide what approach to take. Generally if I'm going for a clean sound (either because it's appropriate for the music or I plan to funk it up later) I'll go for the condensers in standard positions. If I've got a bit of latitude though, I like to mix it up a bit and use any weird mikes that might be around. More important than microphone choice, though is placement. You can get some weird sound with pretty standard microphones if you're prepared to experiment a bit.

I don't know how useful that is. Like I said, it's been a while.

-Kim.

[Kim Lajoie]

For people wanting to talk about an electronic drums workshop, see this thread.

-Kim.