KVR Audio

Jokari · Post by **Jokari** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 12:46 am

living sounds wrote:It should point upwards on the wave editor (yes, absolute polarity matters).

What do you mean? Unless you want to layer several kicks, there's no reason polarity would make any difference in the sound?

jonnyG · Post by **jonnyG** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 2:29 am

Hmmm... another one to add to the "PC v Mac", "analog v digital"and "my DAW is better than your DAW" list of topics to avoid.

Anyway, for the original poster and anyone else more interested in creating sounds than talking gobshite: check out the SOS Synth Secrets Index here. Kicks and pretty much everything else too.

God save us from opinion dressed as fact.

gsoto · Post by **gsoto** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 2:29 am

What's the point of using compression on such a short piece of audio, when you can, for instance, draw a volume envelope with much more control?

dcfac73 · Post by **dcfac73** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 3:22 am

You might already know this but try eqing everything below 100hz out. Makes for a punchy kick.

living sounds · Post by **living sounds** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 6:27 am

You can build a KICKDRUM module (808/909) for that money, of course. 20€ is what the components would cost. You also need a PSU and a power transformer.

Look here: http://xlargex.xl.funpic.de

living sounds · Post by **living sounds** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 6:28 am

Like I said, absolute polarity matters. Try it out with fairy assymetrical waveforms, like a well-recorded 808/909 kick or a brass recording. It sounds different inverted.

Jokari wrote:
living sounds wrote:It should point upwards on the wave editor (yes, absolute polarity matters).
What do you mean? Unless you want to layer several kicks, there's no reason polarity would make any difference in the sound?

underface · Post by **underface** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 2:37 pm

jonnyG wrote::roll:Anyway, for the original poster and anyone else more interested in creating sounds than talking gobshite: check out the SOS Synth Secrets Index here. Kicks and pretty much everything else too.

God save us from opinion dressed as fact.

YES YES YES, Everybody do this now!

ferdik · Post by **ferdik** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 5:08 pm

living sounds wrote:OK, it's the sound design forums:

For that 909 kick use two sine waves. One is fairly low, it gets a pitch evelope that starts somewhere between 100-200 hz and goes down to aproximately 50 hz, the second one starts out higher 300-600 hz and goes down to somewhere like 80hz. You can try and add a sub bass at low amplitude that's around 50 hz all the way.
Both sines get an envelope resembling heavy compression. To get that typical smack at the beginning you need to add a very short envelope, so short in fact that the waveform looks it's assymetrical. It should point upwards on the wave editor (yes, absolute polarity matters).
Now add a very short, bandpass filtered piece of noise with a fast envelope going down.
That's it. I stand by what I said about the VCA before though.

Awesome!

I now realize (and hear) it's two sine wave - one low and one to give the kick more punch - and then the smacksound.

Do I need an wave editing prog. (Adobe Audition?) to create the differn't sines? Or do I do it in a synth and eq?

Dean Aka Nekro · Post by **Dean Aka Nekro** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 5:23 pm

Audacity is free and capable of the sine generation but a synth will do the job just fine too (pretty much anything that will let you bypass anything but the osc) and then shape/combine/eq still your kick kills

Edit:

I like the drumatic VSTi by E-Phonic for synth kicks as it has all the shaping and other stuff mentioned and some brootal doof's are a sizzle to make (and yeah that litle doof buzz machine is an old fave of mine too

) also i love the Sub-Synth by MDA which goes nice under any kick and lets you invert the signal along with other methods and keys very well and all free.

If all else fails get the bit-crusher out (thats what i do anyway

)

here is a basic beat i knocked up with the keyed sine-sub on it:

http://www.mediafire.com/?5onf2z2wsa8

and again with even more sub-synth added:

http://www.mediafire.com/?wclbemnymkg

living sounds · Post by **living sounds** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 6:59 pm

I use Audition for this sort of thing. Here are some samples:

www.scherer.de/Download/SelfKick.rar

1-4 I just made using the method I described. There's also a file with those samples going through compression and EQ, as well as compression + EQ that makes it sound like a 909 used in 90s dance music, a very midrangy sound. For comparison I added a sample of my DIY-808 kick and some stuff I recorded with an Mbase01. The last one moves a lot of bass, but it's not easy to fit into a mix. You need the midrange knock for that. This is the main reason why the 808/909 work so well, they've got the quick, knocking midrange attack.

Sascha Franck · Post by **Sascha Franck** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 8:05 pm

Ok, even if I understand that this is NOT about samplers, there's still two tools around which should do a good job on creating such sounds (and whatever further blips and blops):
- Stomper Hyperion
http://www.lysator.liu.se/~zap/stomper/index2.html
- MDA Drumsynth (which is also included in FXpansion's DR-008's synth modules, plus, Fruity can load the patches directly)
http://mda.smartelectronix.com/

Stomper offers as much oscillators as you want, dedicated filters on each and an easily drawawble pitch curve, which makes it a very flexible tool. As it doesn't have to work in realtime, your OSC amounts are practically unlimited (there might be an internal limitation such as 10 or so - still quite a lot).

I'm mentioning samplers because if you use these two tools, you will have to load the exported wave files into whatever sampler of your choice to get the layering done. Might be a good idea anyways as you'll save quite some CPU power.

Yuroun · Post by **Yuroun** » Tue Sep 02, 2008 11:53 am

There's a really nice tut about how to make a kick your self with Sounforce.

http://www.infected.co.il/futureCitySki ... 0Tutorials

Dean Aka Nekro · Post by **Dean Aka Nekro** » Tue Sep 02, 2008 1:56 pm

nice kiks living sounds and good advice too (my kiks would

a systems limiter far too hard which needs to kept in mind if you want to use em (not that my crap would get anywhere near a club in the first place

)

also Sascha cheers mate for the stomper hyperion link (anything to make a noise is up my street

)

ferdik · Post by **ferdik** » Wed Sep 03, 2008 7:14 pm

living sounds wrote:I use Audition for this sort of thing. Here are some samples:

www.scherer.de/Download/SelfKick.rar

1-4 I just made using the method I described. There's also a file with those samples going through compression and EQ, as well as compression + EQ that makes it sound like a 909 used in 90s dance music, a very midrangy sound. For comparison I added a sample of my DIY-808 kick and some stuff I recorded with an Mbase01. The last one moves a lot of bass, but it's not easy to fit into a mix. You need the midrange knock for that. This is the main reason why the 808/909 work so well, they've got the quick, knocking midrange attack.

Alright!

I having trouble to get the smack sound. Is it a third sine wave with a very short envelope? And then white noise on it?

Your examples is good. Wav 1 and 4 have the smack I'm after.

living sounds · Post by **living sounds** » Wed Sep 03, 2008 7:54 pm

1 and 4 have additional white noise on them. To get it smack you need to have the noise fade in just a little earlier than the sine oscs at a very low levvel ,then, when the sine waves start, get it to maximum level very quickly and get the env down to zero very quickly again . filter some of the low end and high end away from the noise.

ferdik wrote:
Alright!

I having trouble to get the smack sound. Is it a third sine wave with a very short envelope? And then white noise on it?

Your examples is good. Wav 1 and 4 have the smack I'm after.

Kickdrum creation and basic formula?