Alchemy: Features, discussion e.t.c

[aMUSEd]

I just wanted to chime in and say I have a great deal of respect for both Eric, Glenn and the rest of Spectrasonics. I've no doubt that Omnisphere will be a great synthesizer, based on Erics very impressive track record of sound design. I think Alchemy will be great too. The two synths are actually really very different, and each has advantages that will make it appeal to different people, and of course if you have the cash then the best option would be to own both

You could get together and do a "buy one, get one free" offer?

[christianmusicmaker]

I just wanted to chime in and say I have a great deal of respect for both Eric, Glenn and the rest of Spectrasonics. I've no doubt that Omnisphere will be a great synthesizer, based on Erics very impressive track record of sound design. I think Alchemy will be great too. The two synths are actually really very different, and each has advantages that will make it appeal to different people, and of course if you have the cash then the best option would be to own both

Cheers Ben. It's nice to see competitive products, but equally friendly devs. As you probably already know Eric feels the same way about you guys at Camel...a comment from a recent thread...

In fact, we have lots of good friends within the development community - like Dave @ GForce, Ben @ Camel, Urs, everyone @ IK, the Propheads and many others. We're competitors, but we root for each other too.

Nice too see.

The only problem with Camel and Spectrasoncis is when you guys decide to raise the synth VSTi bar at the same time with your incredible new products

My guess is that Omnisphere will be the first software instrument that is actually better than any hardware instrument available. There are a number of instruments that are just as good as hardware, e.g. Zebra 2, but Omnisphere might usher in a whole new era of quality. I'm not sure that Alchemy has same potential.

I think as you said the quality of some software synths is already on par with Hardware or some would say better..certainly in terms of flexibility and cost. It is a very subjective topic IMO that boils down to each persons perception and needs but yes Omni and Alchemy for me definitely bring a level of flexibility and sound manipulation I have not come across before.

Being able to demo them side by side would be great.

There is no good reason not to offer a demo version. If the synth engine is so good then you do not need 40GB of samples to show what the synth can do.

In the past, before demos became standard I have wasted thousands of dollars on software that did not suit my needs/interests due to marketing hype. These days, a demo version is essential. It is not like I can return it if I am not happy with it. No way I would pay $500 just to find out if I like something. All the risk is on the user. I do not find that a reasonable way to do business.

Perhaps if there is enough of a demand for a demo, Spectrasonics can reconsider. It is certainly not a small cash outlay to ask for, considering one might (for whatever reason) not want to keep it after buying it.

Requesting a demo of a software product is far from an unusual expectation.

Eric has said something along the lines of Omni being a powerful enough synth on it's own (without samples IIRC) so with that in mind surely some sort of demo download can be made available...without samples. Being able to demo Omni is not a question of the sound quality for me(I trust that) it's the following...

1. Pace of the industry. One minute Omnisphere looks to be so much better than all or many products out there then...Alchemy turns up. Now I want to demo them side by side. Can't do that if there is no Omni demo.

There will always be something that will rival the best products we have now (in most cases anyway) down the line.

2. Again sound quality is not what I would be worried about with either (personally) but workflow would be something I would want to try out in detail first. With so many features and parameters e.t.c how would either product fit *my* workflow?

3. How would one compare to the other as far as sound manipulation goes? A massive demo period would have to be set aside for that.

4. How quickly can I get up to speed with each .e.t.c

5. Potential compatibility issues with my host.

I would defintely want to get answers to those questions with each app side by side on my hard drive. Spectrasonics produce great products but I really hope they reconsider a demo for Omni.

It will sell bucket loads either way but they will lose some buyers without a demo I think. That number might not even nearly be enough to change Spectrasonics demo policy though. Having said that some other ways to demo Omni were hinted at by Eric recently, maybe more info on that will be available on Monday or soon afterwards.

None of this will matter for those who will buy Alchemy and Omni (now) but while I would like to buy both at some point, for now it is an unlikely scenario for me and I suspect many others (just yet).

You could get together and do a "buy one, get one free" offer? Smile

I think the possibility of the Sun vanishing into thin air is more likely than Ben and Eric agreeing to that. Made me laugh though. Oh and seeing as they are clearly good mates it was at the very least a cheeky request worth asking for.

[Nokenoku]

It is the lack of a demo that means Omnisphere will not even be on my 'interested to purchase list'. That and no sample import lost my interest.

Every of their old products has loads .. and I mean LOADS of audio-demos.

And like mentioned, maybe you'll be able to try it out at a music-store.

Omnisphere 23%
Alchemy 38%

OMG. Things like that really only happen here at KVR.
For all the people, who think they are not going with "hypes". You are hyped yourself. Always for low/no-budget software or developers, which appear to be "friendly", the products are hyped in this forum.

Listening to the demos for Alchemy I'm not yet convinced, that I had any use for this synth. I simply don't like its sound.

Watching the Omnisphere-Videos (plus knowing what else will be included) I already have loads of possible applications for it. Plus I've seen Trilogy, Atmosphere and StylusRMX and know about Erics experience.

[Dave Bourke]

What makes a sound: psychoacoustic?

A bad upbringing?

Kind regards.

[aMUSEd]

You could get together and do a "buy one, get one free" offer? Smile

I think the possibility of the Sun vanishing into thin air is more likely than Ben and Eric agreeing to that. Made me laugh though. Oh and seeing as they are clearly good mates it was at the very least a cheeky request worth asking for.

Wasn't really a serious request

[whyterabbyt]

OMG. Things like that really only happen here at KVR.
For all the people, who think they are not going with "hypes". You are hyped yourself. Always for low/no-budget software or developers, which appear to be "friendly", the products are hyped in this forum.

Bit of a strange (and unsubstantiable) thing to say when (a) Camel would appear to be just as well respected as Spectrasonic (b) the $250 cost of Alchemy is hardly 'low/no budget' and (c) the majority of the folk behaving as though they've they have premade their decisions based solely on video and/or anecdotal reports in this thread seem to have decided in favour of Omnisphere.
Particularly those displaying the most severe hyberbole.

I always find it amusing when someone justifies something on the grounds of some straw man assertion of how the (clearly ignorant) masses at KVR seemingly think as a whole. Its a cheap and shoddy debating tactic, and indicates a lot about the prejudices of the person doing so. I think its particularly interesting that you deliberately missed out one other statistic:

20% both.

Its really is amazing the convoluted lengths people go to to prove their superiority in knowing what the 'right' choices should be. But then I forget, he who has all teh right gear wins, dont they.

[John-E34]

the majority of the folk behaving as though they've they have premade their decisions based solely on video and/or anecdotal reports in this thread seem to have decided in favour of Omnisphere

I made my decision based simply on reputation, price, copy protection, and open format compatibility.

I am buying Alchemy, but I guess most professional people will purchase Omni.... either themselves, or through the company they work for.

[christianmusicmaker]

Omnisphere 23%
Alchemy 38%

They are *very* interesting numbers but even those numbers might be bit closer or change completely the other way after tomorrow. Maybe Alchemy might get even more votes but either way it's a very interesting way to get an indication of one's preference for product A or B. I think it's one of the most useful, informative and equally fun aspects of KVR.

I think lower cost, a demo, an option to buy a download version of Alchemy or get it on DVD and sample import, are tilting the votes in Alchemy's favour...(just a guess).

Of course some will buy both anyway.

For all the people, who think they are not going with "hypes". You are hyped yourself.

No question many if not all products at some point are hyped. It is part of the marketing process. At the end of the day I guess it is solely down to the user which kind of hype they respond to.

Always for low/no-budget software or developers, which appear to be "friendly", the products are hyped in this forum.

Camel did it, Spectrasonics did and I personally think it is just a bit of fun that's all. Camel's video and Omni's (Second video) are part info - part fun. I don't take it too seriously. But I am glad Camel and Specs put those video clips out.

I think cost will always be a factor in most buying situations. I personally see nothing wrong with choosing a product that costs less (if need be). Not everyone can afford a product beyond a certain price point.

What is wrong with supporting a low budget software dev? As for the "friendly" reference... IIRC Steinberg for instance have on many occasions come under intense criticism for their attitude toward their customers...I think for many including myself that aspect of a product does indeed matter.

Some of the smaller devs offer incredible products, Zynewave, Audio Damage, Stillwell, and Voxengo just to name a few.

Listening to the demos for Alchemy I'm not yet convinced, that I had any use for this synth. I simply don't like its sound.

I would defintely want to demo Alchemy. I think there will be a demo around Oct or so maybe.

Watching the Omnisphere-Videos (plus knowing what else will be included) I already have loads of possible applications for it. Plus I've seen Trilogy, Atmosphere and StylusRMX and know about Erics experience.

His Roland background alone speaks for itself, yes. I own all three Spectrasonics products so quality wise Omni will surely be on a similar level at least to his previous efforts = top draw.

As a Camel Phat and Camel Space owner I **seriously** doubt Alchemy will be a let down, but I would personally prefer to demo Omni and Alchemy (side by side)for reasons other than sound quality.

[Nokenoku]

I didn't want to underrate CamelAudio here. I also think their CamelPhat is just great!!!

But seriously:
Comparing the those two synths by the information we have at this point, it's just utopic to think Alchemy would even come close to Omnisphere.
Yeah, some of the Spectrasonic-Teasers might be way over the top and so I think some people look at it as cheap standart-hype. But if you just look at it dry Omnisphere will definetly immediatly become the All-around-Go-To-Tool for every kind of music, plus it will become the GoTo-Tool for unconventionall Synth-Sounds. This is because of the presets and the 6 years work of people, who are known as some of the best sound-designers on this planet.
Just stay realistic.

[plastique]

The only thing I know is that I won't be buying either (just a personal thing not to invest much into music software anymore, as I probably won#t use them that much), but I definitely look forward to any demos (application or mp3s).

[krraqk]

There is something that I dont understand about people here (kvr in general, not specifically in this thread) which seems to see an handicap or a negative or minor point in the fact that Omnisphere has 40 gb of sample material.

How can be that a negative or a minor aspect of the product??

Coming from Spectrasonics who is one of the most respected sample library developers I thing its exactly the opposite. Not to mention the already inclusion in Omnisphere of SOV, Vocal Planet, HZ guitars, etc.

I think that to compare those two products (if they are comparable at all, which I think not are) aside many other things we need to have that in mind and I think that those 40 gb of high quality sample material is a bonus, a big difference that would compensate greatly the difference in price and probably much more.

Who can argue against to have that wonderful 40 gb package of sample material included? And being so cheap the HDs today (maybe it can cost about 6€!!) who can complain about the space this vsti will take? its absurd, really.

In the end I think that Omni and Alchemy are two very different beasts in many senses that will have also very different sonic flavour. I for sure if possible will have both.

[christianmusicmaker]

I didn't want to underrate CamelAudio here. I also think their CamelPhat is just great!!!

Indeed.

But seriously:
Comparing the those two synths by the information we have at this point, it's just utopic to think Alchemy would even come close to Omnisphere.

Bear in mind Nokenoku...peoples individual needs differ. A persons workflow synth wise compared to another can also differ by a little or a great deal e.t.c. There may be a sea of reasons why many feel Alchemy will be a better fit for them. Likely an equal number of reasons why some prefer Omni. It's all good.

But if you just look at it dry Omnisphere will definetly immediatly become the All-around-Go-To-Tool for every kind of music, plus it will become the GoTo-Tool for unconventionall Synth-Sounds.

Maybe for *most* or certain types of music but personally I can't really say every IMO and really I would have to buy Omni to find that out for myself.

This is because of the presets and the 6 years work of people, who are known as some of the best sound-designers on this planet.
Just stay realistic.

An interesting viewpoint. Omni will likely have thousands of presets. I think Atmosphere presets will be available for download for Omnisphere customers tomorrow or very soon after tomorrow IIRC.

That's a thousand presets to start with...I think anything between 2,000 and 15,000 new presets might even ship with Omni (please Eric, tell me Omni does not have 20,000+ presets ) compared to Alchemy's 300 it dwarfs it there, but I think most people (judging by the poll) are not bothered by that and either want both (as go to's most likely) or favour Alchemy because of it's sample import and I would say most likely similar level of work put into developing Alchemy, demo, loop import e.t.c

Spectrasonics sound design skills are fantastic, Eric is a sound designer first then a dev IMO. I think that shows. He has an almost *glittering* past as a sound designer.

Camel?
Well this list of contributors to Alchemy is equally impressive if you ask me...

Junkie XL, John Lehmkuhl, Ian Boddy, Richard Devine, Big Tone, Arksun, Michael Kastrup, Beej, Summa, Xenox, Tasmodia, Paul Nauert, Christian Kjeldsen, Rory Dow, Artvera, Pendle, Dangerous Bear, Biomechanoid and Tim Conrardy

My point is they have both caused a serious stir and will continue to do so, I think there is a pretty good chance over time that many will get both plugs. While they have quite a few similarities I think they have probably just as many differences as well to warrant getting both at some point.

Such is the depth of either that you could just use any one of them as the *only* synth you have.

[FrankT]

For the moment this still is a videoware shoot-out. Funny! Anyway, shouldn't be a shoot-out after all. I am sure there will be space for both. I like Alchemy's open concept!

[mellotronaut]

will anybody here or there on this planet make better music with either Omnisphere or Alchemy?
Thousands of musicians, who produce music for spots, movies and TV-series are impatiently waiting just because they want to be the first ones, who exploit the presets. They won't have time to do a proper sounddesign. All the others will do, what they always do: playing with the new toys, some going into the dephts of sound-programming, most of us not even scratching the surface: important is: we have the newest technology, the most flexible engine, the best sampled bulb and can feel ahead of the penis.

[Nokenoku]

Camel?
Well this list of contributors to Alchemy is equally impressive if you ask me...

Junkie XL, John Lehmkuhl, Ian Boddy, Richard Devine, Big Tone, Arksun, Michael Kastrup, Beej, Summa, Xenox, Tasmodia, Paul Nauert, Christian Kjeldsen, Rory Dow, Artvera, Pendle, Dangerous Bear, Biomechanoid and Tim Conrardy

I've actually overlooked that. Thx for the headsup.