George Russell's Lydian Chromatic Concept of Tonal

[KLS]

Lots of these expensive 'programs' are little more than adaptations of symmetrical modes for use in diatonic settings.

The most popular symmetrical modes are the octatonic or diminished scale (alterations of whole and half steps), the whole tone scale (all whole steps), and the sextatonic scale (actually it is called all sorts of things, but it's pattern is an alteration of half steps and minor thirds).

The interesting thing about these modes is that they share harmonies with standard diatonic scales. Both octatonic and sextatonic modes contain standard major and minor chords. The former also contains standard seventh chords and diminished seventh chords, while the latter contains augmented triads. These modes themselves have no strong sense of diatonic tonal center, because they are symmetrical within the octave (which is why Messiaen called them 'modes of limited transposition'). Consequently they can be used to enrich ones tonal palette without disturbing the diatonic underpinnings.

Of course symmetrical modes have thousands of uses, but as they are atonal, and atonality is about as common as 11/8 time in popular music, most of these uses are rather obscure.

George Perle, Elliot Antokoletz, and John Rahn are all authors who have written extensively on the use of symmetrical modes. Their books are often expensive these days, but they are also quite common in libraries.

So, herodotus, how would you use these chords created from symetrical harmony? Would you use them in a series leading back to the tonic, like Coltrane changes are used? Or would they be used as substitutes for some of the diatonic chords?

[jancivil]

I can give you a basic use of a symmetrical, octatonic scale used over a harmony:

Let's say V7 of C. *G7*

Your construction of alternating semitones and tones: G Ab Bb B C# D E F

on G7, it gives you b9, #9 (A#), #11 (or b5), 13 , just by running the scale.




I wonder is it useful to think the other way round, in terms of 'symmetrical harmony'???

[KLS]

I can give you a basic use of a symmetrical, octatonic scale used over a harmony:

Let's say V7 of C. *G7*

Your construction of alternating semitones and tones: G Ab Bb B C# D E F

on G7, it gives you b9, #9 (A#), #11 (or b5), 13 , just by running the scale.

So then, what you're saying is that this scale can be used in an improvisation over the G7 chord, the Ab, Bb, and C# giving you alternative tones from the modal scale?

[jopy]

So then, what you're saying is that this scale can be used in an improvisation over the G7 chord, the Ab, Bb, and C# giving you alternative tones from the modal scale?

The symmetrical scales have another function that jancivil alluded to earlier. The scale she described in alternating half and whole steps (Russell calls these auxiliary diminished and auxiliary diminished blues) implies several different keys.

Building from G you get:
G Ab Bb B C# D E F
Building from Bb you get:
Bb B C# D E F G Ab
Building from C# you get:
C# D E F G Ab Bb B
Building from E you get:
E F G Ab Bb B C# D

You'll obviously notice that these are all identical. And they all have multiple leading tones. This scale could resolve to the key of C, Eb, Gb, or A, and the longer you play it, the more it sounds like it could go anywhere or nowhere. You can actually substitute any of the altered 7 chords you can make from G, Bb, C#, or E for one another, or use the diminished scale you'd build off Ab, B, D, or F. So you get new notes, but you also get a feel that's not at all like a horizontal mode or scale.

The whole tone or augmented scales (G A B Db Eb F or C D E Gb Ab Bb) have the same effect but even more so because there's no leading tones at all.

[jancivil]

I can give you a basic use of a symmetrical, octatonic scale used over a harmony:

Let's say V7 of C. *G7*

Your construction of alternating semitones and tones: G Ab Bb B C# D E F

on G7, it gives you b9, #9 (A#), #11 (or b5), 13 , just by running the scale.

So then, what you're saying is that this scale can be used in an improvisation over the G7 chord, the Ab, Bb, and C# giving you alternative tones from the modal scale?

Yes, and the E here is your 13th. (note that these tones can be a substitute for G7. a Bb-7 b5.)

so, it's a lot of color, over the putative function.
being a 'diminished' object - NB: every other note forms a diminished 7 arpeggio - it does the thing that jmeier explicated. It's symmetrical, it isn't limited to a static function.

It' a good trick for opening up the harmony, as if it's demolishing the expectation of tonality.

another good one is a lydian with a flat 7, another set of colors:

Say *G7* again: G A B C# D E F.

Treat it like you construct modes from major: these 7 tones, from A-G, B-A, C#-B, D-C# etc.
This set starting on D, is the same as the construction known as 'rising melodic minor'.

which is another thing used an awful lot in modern jazz, 'modalizing' a construction with a lot of 'outside' implications. particularly this one, you hear it a lot.

[memyselfandus]

This stuff fascinates me. Very interesting

[KLS]

Wow! Thanks, guys! Ya know, you're giving me a whole lesson here. Very cool stuff! Much appreciated.

- Ken