KVR Mix Workshop - Week 6: Guitars (2)

[Kim Lajoie]

Week 6: Guitars (2)

Time to add in the acoustic guitars.

Original Full Mix
A7's version
Cordelia's version
Ngarjuna's version
Yonyz' version
Raw tracks (warning: 23MB zip of uncompressed WAV files)
Produced tracks

Approach
With the lead vocals, drums, bass and electric guitars in place, we're starting to get into the deep background. This is where masking starts to become a big problem - the tracks will sound very different in solo than how they do in the mix, because there are so many other sounds in front of them. Because of this, my approach is not to make these tracks sound natural, because most of the detail in the sound will be lost in the mix. Instead, my approach is to exaggerate the qualities of the sound that contribute to the mix and are noticeable. I also diminish (sometimes to the point of completely cutting) the qualities of the sound that are not immediately audible. Even those these qualities might not be noticeable, they use up headroom and add low level mud to the mix. Particularly with such a dense mix as this, I want to make sure that every part of every sound is contributing something purposeful. By contrast, sparser music is more forgiving in this way (it's more demanding in other ways) because these secondary qualities of the sounds contribute to a fuller and more interesting background. In a dense mix, we're deliberately adding background sounds as separate tracks with specific purposes.

Tone
The purpose of the two acoustic guitar parts is to provide an acoustic strumming component in the higher frequencies of the mix. For this, we're really interested in the top end of the sound - this is where the detail and articulation is for the strumming. By contrast, the mids and lows don't sound a lot like strumming - try lowpassing the acoustic guitars at about 1kHz and listen for yourself. To bring out the strumming, I've boosted the top end a bit. To reduce the body of the sound, I've made some significant dips in the lower mid, and used highpass filters set quite high. This will make the guitars sound quite horrible on their own. It's something of a catch-22: you have to solo them (or at least boost their level) to hear the precision in your processing for exact adjustments, but the sound you hear will be different when they're at the their final level in the mix. Just think about exaggerating the sound. The more you exaggerate it, the better it will fit in the mix. In fact, the more you exaggerate the sound, the quieter they can be, which makes for a neater mix and less required headroom. Remember - they're not supposed to sound like acoustic guitars - they're supposed to sound like an acoustic guitar strumming component within a complex mix.

The two acoustic guitar parts play the same role in the mix - to add the acoustic strumming. I've named them differently because they were recorded with different mix positioning, and I've adjusted their tone in slightly different ways. Listen to the produced tracks. Keep in mind though that the differences are in character - not in function.

A note about boosting the top end - you might find it difficult to get a smooth sound using EQ alone. Because of the dynamic nature of the instrument (and my uneven playing!), you might find that different strums will respond differently to EQ. What might be the right tonal balance for some strums might make others too harsh and spiky, and others not bright enough. I used a harmonic exciter, as the overdrive also flattens the peaks - harmonic exciters can also work a bit like limiters (clippers, really) at high drive levels. A multiband compressor or dynamic EQ might be useful too, but BE CAREFUL! These are very complex processors, and it's very easy to get lost in tweakland. This is a serious productivity trap - especially as the acoustic guitars are so far back in the mix (ie not terribly important in the grand scheme of things). You'll probably only need to drive the top end a little - push it just until you can hear it working.

Dynamics
Like tone, the approach here is to fit the sound in the mix, rather than to preserve a natural sound. Because my playing was fairly uneven, I used compression to make the sound more even. The compressor in this case is used to make the transients the same level without bringing up too much of the decay. To do this you'll need a precise (surgical!) compressor - something with full control and predictable output. This is not a job for that character compressor with little more than a "drive" control. Start with the threshold set highest (so it's not processing anything), highest ratio, hardest knee, fastest attack and fastest release. Slowly lower the threshold until you hear every strum being compressed a little - they should be all the same level. Then increase the release time to open up the decay, but be sure to keep it fast enough that the compressor can fully recover before the next strum. Otherwise the compressor will be too slow and the strums will start to be uneven again. This is why it's important to use a clean flexible compressor for this. A character compressor *might* have the right characteristics to work well on this material, but you're relying a lot more on the internal design. If it doesn't work, it might be that the controls aren't set right (or they are, but the compressor is doing more than just what the controls suggest), or it could be that the character is just not appropriate for this particular sound.

Level
Like the electric guitars, the approach here is to start with the fader at minimum and slowly bring up each channel until you just hear it peaking out of the mix. Make sure the balance of the mix remains the same - don't upset it!

<- Week 5 Week 7 ->

-Kim.

[Cordelia]

The problem I had this week with the acoustics was getting them to sit timing-wise. I cut a bit off of the beginning of both acoustic tracks and nudged them back a little. I'm not hearing any acoustic timing issues on the other posted mixes, so I'm wondering if anyone else did the same, and if not, I wonder why I had such trouble?
Anyway, the mixes are sounding cool. Props to all, and thanks again Kim!

[Cordelia]

A7, man, that mix is really filling out nicely. I'm wondering about the tom frenzy at the end of the track. In my mix, it's a mess, really. In your mix, A7, it sounds so much more controlled. I can even hear a double snare hit at the tail end of the fill which gets completely lost in my mix. I gotta go back and work on those toms. Also, my electrics are still too loud, although the balance betwen guitars seems about right. I think I'll sub group all the guitars and lower them together.

Oh, and, where is everybody?

[asnor]

Hey Cordelia,

I had problems with the acoustics, too. I thought about editing them to improve the timing, but I didn't have time for any of that last week. I just ended up high passing all the body out of the tone and setting them in just loud enough to be audible.


I'll get back to you on the drum thing.

[asnor]

Do you mean the very last double hit with the double tom hit right before the drums end? Or, do you mean the actual double stick hit right there before the last tom roll?

If you're refering to the double stick hit, it isn't in the original track. I had re-arranged some stuff to get rid of that mess of a snare roll at the very end, so I ended up getting rid of the tom hits that double the snare at 3:24, then doubled the snare on each hit to make it sound like the drummer hit the snare with both sticks. I was just trying to keep the drum energy up, without having to have the toms double the snare, since I moved that bit to the last part in the drum arrangement and didn't want it repeated.

Anyway, you're not missing anything. I just added something

[Cordelia]

Do you mean the very last double hit with the double tom hit right before the drums end? Or, do you mean the actual double stick hit right there before the last tom roll?

If you're refering to the double stick hit, it isn't in the original track. I had re-arranged some stuff to get rid of that mess of a snare roll at the very end, so I ended up getting rid of the tom hits that double the snare at 3:24, then doubled the snare on each hit to make it sound like the drummer hit the snare with both sticks. I was just trying to keep the drum energy up, without having to have the toms double the snare, since I moved that bit to the last part in the drum arrangement and didn't want it repeated.

Anyway, you're not missing anything. I just added something

Ah! Good job! I was referring to the double stick hit. Now I am inspired to try a few things out, maybe edit those last snare hits. The end fills are OTT for my taste, but, like you say, it's important to keep the energy up there. Your edits were very successful. Thanks for the info, a7.

[asnor]

Ah! Good job! I was referring to the double stick hit. Now I am inspired to try a few things out, maybe edit those last snare hits. The end fills are OTT for my taste, but, like you say, it's important to keep the energy up there. Your edits were very successful. Thanks for the info, a7.

I've made quite a few changes like that. I guess I might be fired, if I were getting paid to mix this for someone, but seeing how this is all a learning experience, I can't see any harm in having some fun with it.

Actually, I hope I don't get fired from the workshop for calling that snare roll a mess

[Kim Lajoie]

Actually, I hope I don't get fired from the workshop for calling that snare roll a mess

-Kim.

[obiwanjacobi]

When I saw the post of this workshop you guys were already in week 6. I never had any real experience (just some home recording) in mixing and thought it should be fun to give it a try.

So I downloaded all the raw tracks and did my best with them. This is the result of a little over 2 hours of work. I love to hear what you think sucks

Take1.mp3 (1.2MB)

You must know I cheated a little and added a reverb here and there and panned some tracks.

Now I will go back and actualy start reading the posts

[Kim Lajoie]

Now I will go back and actualy start reading the posts

I recommend it.

-Kim.

[obiwanjacobi]

I recommend it.

That bad huh?

[Cordelia]

Hey obiwanjacobi,
Welcome to the workshop. Never too late. I've learned a LOT already, plus it's been a blast.
I'll give your mix a listen when I'm at my computer later today.

[asnor]

So I downloaded all the raw tracks and did my best with them. This is the result of a little over 2 hours of work.

Reading this got me to thinking...I figure I have at least a good 24 hours into my mix right now. Probably quite a bit more. It doesn't seem like I've been working on it for so long, though. I guess that's because the times been broken up over the weeks.

I suppose with the experience gained here, the next mix I do won't take as much overall time.

[Cordelia]

I think I must have put in at least three or four hours on just the kick drum. I had some trouble with that track.
I'm slow.
The pace of the workshop has been good for me. I get to come back to the mix refreshed every week. It makes my bad choices obvious right away.
Maybe this is a good way for me to work.

[asnor]

Along with the feedback, which has made a big difference for me, not that it will always be available, I agree with you on coming back fresh after a good break. Definately a good way to work, if you have the time.