Non western music theory?

[phidelity]

if you want a good introduction to north indian classical music with some definitions of that music form and explanations of the basic taal then do a search for Ali Akbaar Khan's book. you can check the school's websit in san raphael, ca. it outlines some basic ideas with a few elementary elements to some raga's. its a good read to get your ears and mind adjusted to hearing the structures of the music. if you are interested after that then find a teacher. its so much faster and clearer to have the music played and explained in context. BTW north indian and south indian music have many different ragas and ways of playing ragas that are common to both areas but there is a lot of cross pollination of ideas and structures.

the tuning, basically, is as one post said just intonation and every instrument is tuned according to itself. where in the frequency spectrum that instrument sounds ideal. sarod is tuned differently then a sitar interms of the actual frequency of the tonic. having said that it is common to tune a sitar to match that of the sarod when more than one instrument is played together. sarod is usually tuned to C or C# but a quarter tone down, sitar is often D - D#, a quarter tone down also (from western equal temp), but it can move a larger range when needed than a sarod. for example the sarod tuned up more than a semitone starts to sound odd and the tension on the strings causes them to break more but the sitar strings are a little more forgiving as is the resonance allowing for a greater range.

contrary to what anyone else has said indian music has a very specific theory and set of rules and even a method of notation. its just once you are beyond the beginner phase then very little is notated. it is intended to be improvized music and you play according to the structure of the music and you, at that point, are expected to understand the grammar of the language and the ragas you have worked on and the practise/performance is about speaking the language.


best

phi

[buckshead]

I may be wrong here but I thought that the fundamental difference between eastern and western music could best be describes as chordal harmony.

In the west the tones are arranged so that consonant chords can be formed, in the east the music is large monophonic or played against a drone. I don't believe there are any chords used at all, the music is linear rather the harmonic.

[jancivil]

if you want a good introduction to north indian classical music with some definitions of that music form and explanations of the basic taal then do a search for Ali Akbaar Khan's book. you can check the school's websit in san raphael, ca. it outlines some basic ideas with a few elementary elements to some raga's. its a good read to get your ears and mind adjusted to hearing the structures of the music. if you are interested after that then find a teacher. its so much faster and clearer to have the music played and explained in context. BTW north indian and south indian music have many different ragas and ways of playing ragas that are common to both areas but there is a lot of cross pollination of ideas and structures.

the tuning, basically, is as one post said just intonation and every instrument is tuned according to itself. where in the frequency spectrum that instrument sounds ideal. sarod is tuned differently then a sitar interms of the actual frequency of the tonic. having said that it is common to tune a sitar to match that of the sarod when more than one instrument is played together. sarod is usually tuned to C or C# but a quarter tone down, sitar is often D - D#, a quarter tone down also (from western equal temp), but it can move a larger range when needed than a sarod.

(my contribution to the page on just intonation. )
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just_inton ... ian_scales

[phidelity]

I may be wrong here but I thought that the fundamental difference between eastern and western music could best be describes as chordal harmony.

In the west the tones are arranged so that consonant chords can be formed, in the east the music is large monophonic or played against a drone. I don't believe there are any chords used at all, the music is linear rather the harmonic.

this is true in indian classical music. but instruments do play together but not with a harmonic structure as western music - this is called a 'junglebandi' (sp?) but they are not playing harmonies. the lead instrument plays melodic lines, themes, and the support plays the chorus (theka or sthaya depending on whether you are percussionist or melodic instrumentalist) and when the lead finishes/ resolves their 'ideas' then the roles are reversed the other instrumentalist is allowed to elaborate or develop the theme while the first recites the sthaya.

the drone is a tuning reference and the absolute frequency of the drone tuning is set by the lead musicians according to taste for your instrument ... some sitar schools tune to c others tune up to d or d# but that is often according to tradition that you have learned and according you your particular instrument. i am a sitarist and my first instrument i tune to a Quarter tone down from C# because it is a slightly smaller instrument with a slimmer neck, lighter strings and tuning it up to D# is a pushing the instruments range. while my professional quality instrument is made to be tuned to D or D#. the body/ gourd and the neck are larger and resonate better at that tuning and this is the tuning that my teacher primarily plays. i can still tune it down and it will sound in tune but the sustain is not quite the same.

[jopy]

Another enormous difference besides harmony in Western European music vis a vis most other world traditions is the treatment of rhythm. Every musical style has a different way of thinking, of course, but unless there's a strong Western European influence on the music (e.g., Latin American music), the concept of a downbeat or time signature in the way our music programs treat them is non-existent. It's a good concept for European performance practice and especially for the performance of music with a well-defined harmonic progression and large orchestras of tuned string and wind instruments, so I'm not knocking time signatures at all, but most other musical cultures have a much more complicated rhythmic framework.

In West African music (this I know better than Asian music) the role of time keeping is often performed by a clave type of beat called a timeline. If you try to think about things in terms of counting out beats like a time signature in West African music you'll completely screw yourself up and you'll never get it. You emphasize the wrong beats, have trouble hanging with the other parts, and get confused completely the second you're lost. Trust me, this I know from experience. It's just about the sound of the timeline and the relationship of the parts to one another relative to the timeline. Once a person becomes proficient with thinking in terms of a timeline, the music is much easier to understand and you can hear that it's very systematic and well-though out rhythmic polyphony that you don't get in European music.

Indian rhythmic tala are potentially described in terms of time signatures with downbeats, but it's not the same concept at all; one is much better off learning each style in terms of the way it's really played in the place you're hearing it.

BTW: Gamelan music from Indonesia doesn't have a harmonic drone, and neither does most of the Chinese music that I've heard. Again, there's a problem of defining what "eastern" music means.

[jancivil]

the body/ gourd and the neck are larger and resonate better at that tuning and this is the tuning that my teacher primarily plays. i can still tune it down and it will sound in tune but the sustain is not quite the same.

I always wondered about the tuning and how it affects the sound. I couldn't imagine that it didn't.

I wish I had a sitar.


EG: Gamelan isn't harmonic, it's lines, and lines on lines sometimes.
My idea of it, generally, is that the diff., 'east v west', is that 'instruments other than 12 ET means = not harmonic'. Monophonic tendency. Melody and rhythm, and sound.