KVR Audio

Zaphod (giancarlo) · Post by **Zaphod (giancarlo)** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 7:30 pm

vieris wrote:
All properly designed Digital plug-in EQ's are the same.

Well, not all
That's a fact

(*) library coming from the user community @ www.nebula-programs.com

Highvoltage · Post by **Highvoltage** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 7:43 pm

guess that means nebula is not properly designed.

Music Engineer · Post by **Music Engineer** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 7:43 pm

vieris wrote: All properly designed Digital plug-in EQ's are the same.

which is a well known fact:

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/su ... .1.23.3931

...assuming, we stick to the standard biquad implementation and demand the gain at Nyquist frequency to be 0 dB.

stanlea · Post by **stanlea** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 7:44 pm

So what's the best (really the best) vintage modern EQ ?

Zaphod (giancarlo) · Post by **Zaphod (giancarlo)** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 7:52 pm

Highvoltage wrote:guess that means nebula is not properly designed.

Music Engineer · Post by **Music Engineer** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 8:05 pm

Zaphod (giancarlo) wrote:
Highvoltage wrote:guess that means nebula is not properly designed.

i guess that means, nebula models the +X

Zaphod (giancarlo) · Post by **Zaphod (giancarlo)** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 8:06 pm

Shy wrote:It's also easy to neglect the fact that EQ band curves can be vastly different, and the way bands interact with each other, in digital too. I guess you've tried Blue's various EQ types. You can't simply emulate that using any standard EQ + whatever processor. An EQ is not all about the "sound" or "color", but about the behavior of the curves and bands.

agreed, and a lot. On most hardware eq, when you dial in the high frequencies you maybe are changing something in the low ones too. And bells... oh bells. They change differently if you are tweaking 1Khz or 22Khz. And the phase response. Not all eq are minimum phase. Not all eq are linear. It's possible you have a mix between a minimum and a maximum phase, a linear phase eq is just a case. It's possible you have different distortion for different bands and for different q settings. It's possible that harmonic kernels have a different behaviour in the frequency domain, depending on all previous possible cases.
I agree with the poster, a biquad with a fancy gui will be just marketing hype.

Zaphod (giancarlo) · Post by **Zaphod (giancarlo)** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 8:15 pm

Robin from www.rs-met.com wrote:
Zaphod (giancarlo) wrote:
Highvoltage wrote:guess that means nebula is not properly designed.

i guess that means, nebula models the +X

imho there should be a balance between:
a) this equaliser will change your life
b) all equalisers are the same

the truth is in the middle, this is my personal opinion.
As musician I must confess, I used the ones with the best gui, cause my clients/mates were more excited looking at a cool photo of a gorgeous vintage piece of iron. If the photo helps, it's ok (= it is helping, so it is right)

hibidy · Post by **hibidy** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 8:29 pm

these things drive me nuts

Is it a summation at all to say that if you use different eq's at the exact same freq's, it's going to sound the same? Seems that should be a given if so.

What about specific eq's that are completely fixed (like an API emu with set parameters/freq/etc).....do they fall into this "all is the same" catigory?

jens · Post by **jens** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 8:43 pm

hibidy wrote:these things drive me nuts

vieris wrote: Read the whole post before replying.

hibidy · Post by **hibidy** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 9:04 pm

jens wrote:..

Oh no, who let you back

kobal · Post by **kobal** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 9:07 pm

you matched the sonar eq with the x eq , some Q designs and high pass/ low pass filters the sonar eq can t replicate and that make a huge difference imo .

Nokenoku · Post by **Nokenoku** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 9:08 pm

Zaphod (giancarlo) wrote:And the phase response. Not all eq are minimum phase. Not all eq are linear. It's possible you have a mix between a minimum and a maximum phase, a linear phase eq is just a case. It's possible you have different distortion for different bands and for different q settings. It's possible that harmonic kernels have a different behaviour in the frequency domain, depending on all previous possible cases.

Thing is, 99,7% of the digital EQs just don't do any of that fancy stuff.

Those "vintage emulations"-EQs and those "super-clean, you won't believe your ears"-EQs are standart-minimum phase without any distortion or other fancy stuff.
I haven't checked all, but a lot (especially the popular stuff like Waves or Sonnox), and they simply are all standart.

Might be another story with Nebula of course, since it's a totally different approach.
But do analogue EQs really have all different behaviour regarding minimum/linear/maximum phase? I always thought they'd all be minumum phase.
I'd be really interesting to know, what they really do different/additional compared with digital EQs.

eduardo_b · Post by **eduardo_b** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 9:35 pm

Zaphod (giancarlo) wrote:imho there should be a balance between:
a) this equaliser will change your life
b) all equalisers are the same

the truth is in the middle, this is my personal opinion.

That works, but it's really difficult getting some people to accept what seems so obvious to others -- like us.

tonAP · Post by **tonAP** » Thu Oct 02, 2008 9:45 pm

a) this equaliser will change your life
b) all equalisers are the same

c) all equalizers will change your life(?)

Digital EQ Fact & Myth.