KVR Audio

ckatrun411 · Post by **ckatrun411** » Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:31 pm

vieris wrote:I find it even more bizarre how some people respond when someone does question. Buts that's a deeper topic, I'll save philosophy discussions for differnt circles.

I dunno, I spent 48 hours thinking on this, before choosing to respond.

vieris wrote: All i'm proving is that most digital parametric EQ's are identical & you can get the same sonic results without having to spend $$$$$ on a plugin bundle.

The problem exists in the definition of identical. I believe you can achieve great results with freeware, and also with the most expensive software around. But I have a problem with this definition of identical...

9x = 2

45x = 2

What is x?

vieris wrote: I don't blindly accept anything. I find it funny how so few question aspects of there life in general.

Why should somebody blindly accept anything? You've made the thread ie you must be right? Some people agree with you, some disagree ie you must be right?

Erm, no....

ckatrun411 · Post by **ckatrun411** » Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:36 pm

jens wrote:
ckatrun411 wrote:I think I have a very simple argument here.

Albert Einstein wrote: Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler.

What are you saying here? Hmm, an Einstein quote... And your point? Does every human being dream the same dream, just because they are dreaming it?

Are you saying that all nuclear reactors should be made in the same simple way? What about the difference between fision and fusion.

Don't go quoting Albert Einstein to try and prove other peoples arguments incorrect. That is stupid and foolish. There has not been one person, who has ever lived that is 100% correct.

I am not saying Einstein is wrong, I am just saying, you are quoting him, and that has shit to do with what I said.

This is the ignorant type of behavior, I see on KVR that annoys me but good.

9b0 · Post by **9b0** » Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:43 pm

It is right to say, most of the EQ's do the same. They work with the same building blocks, they mostly work the same way.

It's also not a lie, if someone says: most of the EQ's sound the same, or veryvery close to each other.

But as a statement it is not true, that all the EQ's could reproduce each others sound, if only the basic EQ structure would be used. There's pretty a big bunch of filter algorythms out there, there's always place for improvement. There are unique pieces, which cannot be reproduced with the common methodics.

It could be said: all the filters are the same, or all the oscillators are the same. Everyone knows, they are not, even, if there's lots of them, which are identical.

ckatrun411 · Post by **ckatrun411** » Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:43 pm

How do you build the same bridge over two different distances?

You might be able to use the same materials, ( same theories of math - maybe. )

But you are still building over two different distances. What should you do?

" Make each bridge as simple as possible but not simpler? "

I agree... But they are still two different distances, and two different bridges, and that is my point.

Thank you..

vieris · Post by **vieris** » Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:43 pm

Shy wrote:There has been some response contradicting not your questioning, but your broad and oversimplifying claim that all "properly designed" digital plug-in EQ's are "the same".

Thats why i said broad i the 1st place.

Different filter/bell/shelf slopes/phase smearing? A fully variable Q recreates them all.
Does the eq oversample? Is it a linear phase?, whats the internal bit resolution? These are some of the variables that can differ. I mention this in my OP.
By "properly designed" I'm saying fully implemented. Like the Sonar native, X-eq, Digi's EQ3, PEQ & so on.
I'm aware EQ parameters can be different/limited. These fall outside my view of "properly designed". I've shown what i wanted to. Thats it. for me it's timw to get back to something creative.

Shy · Post by **Shy** » Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:55 pm

The point is that this imaginary fully variable Q that can accurately recreate these just doesn't exist, and it's not the only thing that would affect the interaction between bands, and the "X" factor which can be many different things, including saturation, can also depend on many different variables. This is all a matter of theory versus practice.

vieris · Post by **vieris** » Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:59 pm

Shy wrote:The point is that this imaginary fully variable Q that can accurately recreate these just doesn't exist

No it does & It's not uncommon. All the peq's i listed do.

as i have quoted in the OP

http://www.algorithmix.com/en/classic_peq_blue.htm

The truth is that with a properly designed, fully parametric analytic PEQ, every amplitude and phase characteristic of any other equalizer setup can be recreated.

Shy · Post by **Shy** » Sat Oct 04, 2008 5:02 pm

Again, this is theory vs practice. If you design the EQ yourself, you may be able to recreate something, but PEQ Blue amongst others doesn't offer unlimited control and can't recreate everything.

SWAN808 · Post by **SWAN808** » Sat Oct 04, 2008 5:05 pm

vieris wrote: I'm a duende & URS owner myself. I use them for the unique qualities .

THis is interesting. Are you refering to Duende EQs? So whilst arguing that all digital EQs are basically the same - you like to use duende eq for its unique qualities?

Considering the cost of Duende that must deem the unique qualities to be of some significance.

vieris · Post by **vieris** » Sat Oct 04, 2008 5:06 pm

No it wont create a cupcake but it will create every amplitude and phase characteristic of every other equalizer.

vieris · Post by **vieris** » Sat Oct 04, 2008 5:09 pm

SWAN808 wrote:
vieris wrote: I'm a duende & URS owner myself. I use them for the unique qualities .
THis is interesting. Are you refering to Duende EQs? So whilst arguing that all digital EQs are basically the same - you like to use duende eq for its unique qualities?

Considering the cost of Duende that must deem the unique qualities to be of some significance.

You should of quoted the rest on my post. I have them for "X"
"(saturation, CPU freedom & compression)"
I have my duende so i can mix my full drum kit without a cpu hit & the compressors are one of a kind

Shy · Post by **Shy** » Sat Oct 04, 2008 5:10 pm

vieris wrote:No it wont create a cupcake but it will create every amplitude and phase characteristic of every other equalizer.

No, it won't. You won't recreate PEQ Red in PEQ Blue. Or my Calrec clone hardware EQ. Because it simply can't. You may be able to create something that resambles something else. But that's not nearly the same as "identical", is it.

vieris · Post by **vieris** » Sat Oct 04, 2008 5:13 pm

Shy wrote:
vieris wrote:No it wont create a cupcake but it will create every amplitude and phase characteristic of every other equalizer.
No, it won't. You won't recreate PEQ Red in PEQ Blue. Or my Calrec clone hardware EQ. Because it simply can't. You may be able to create something that resambles something else. But that's not nearly the same as "identical", is it.

gaaa
yeah red is a Linear phase. and your calrec is analog..
Thats why i said digital from the start.
God i love those calrecs by the way. I have a few.

audiovet · Post by **audiovet** » Sat Oct 04, 2008 5:30 pm

DELETED

Shy · Post by **Shy** » Sat Oct 04, 2008 5:38 pm

vieris wrote:
Shy wrote:
vieris wrote:No it wont create a cupcake but it will create every amplitude and phase characteristic of every other equalizer.
No, it won't. You won't recreate PEQ Red in PEQ Blue. Or my Calrec clone hardware EQ. Because it simply can't. You may be able to create something that resambles something else. But that's not nearly the same as "identical", is it.
gaaa
yeah red is a Linear phase. and your calrec is analog..
Thats why i said digital from the start.
God i love those calrecs by the way. I have a few.

Fine, I'll add "or Waves API 550A, or Stillwell 1973, or KeyToSound Vintage EQ". In short, it's not that simple and it's not possible to recreate everything with it. There is no one can do all EQ and there are too many parameters that can affect an EQ's behavior and sound. In theory it's possible, in practice it's not and it's unfeasible, so again it ends in theory vs practice. Digital plug-in EQs may all be the same in theory, but that doesn't make it the reality.

Digital EQ Fact & Myth.