Hi everyone. Its been a while since last time I posted something here on this forum.
I have not used Miroslav for some time now since changing to Kontakt 3 (where I could use many of my old librares from the hardware sampler days...) However, I recently rediscovered how beautiful these Miro samples really are. The only thing I really miss about the Philharmonik sample player is the ability to make mod wheel crossfaded patches, like most other plugins can/already have. (Even old Roland S700 samplers could do this!!). For now, it is only possible to layer different sounds, which doesn't sound too natural imo.
I am 100% sure Philharmonik could be so much better if only IK Multimedia could implement this feature in a future update. I have many orchestral libraries, like EWQL Gold Pro XP, VSL (bundled with Kontakt), Siedaczek's AO and Choirs, Roland Orch. Fam, SOV, but overall Miroslav have shown to be my most useful and creative tool. No other library/plugin have inspired me the way Miroslav Philharmonik has. I can make fairly decent sounding compositions with Philharmonik as it is, but I feel I need this crossfade feature to be able to breath more life and dynamics into my works.
I know Miroslav is not as thoroughly sampled as newer libraries, but I'm sure it would make a difference being able to crossfade between soft violins and exp violins to give an example.
Take care,
-Chris
Any chance of a Miroslav Philharmonik update?
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- KVRAF
- 4692 posts since 28 Jan, 2003 from In these very interwebs
You could do it if your sequencer provides MIDI CC transformation (such as Cubase's Logical Editor). Set the velocity response for both instruments to flat, and assign modwheel (or whatever you want) to volume or swell. Then use your sequencer's CC transformation function to reverse the range of the modwheel going into one of the parts. It's a bit fiddly, but it's possible. Hope that makes sense.
-Kim.
-Kim.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 58 posts since 13 Aug, 2005
Thanks for the tip but I think it is too fiddly as you say. I was hoping for a yes or no or maybe answer for my question about adding this to the sample player in a future update. I know Philharmonik is a very good product as it is, and I like the ease of use, but not being able to do some of the basics of other sample players and not being able to load them into another sampler like Kontakt is a bit frustrating because I really love the warmth and organic feel of these samples.
-Chris
-Chris
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- KVRian
- 541 posts since 1 Jan, 2004
I agree with all of shantar's dissatisfactions and would add..
i would like to see the promised "huge library of previously un-released stuff that miroslav sampled" and was mentioned many times here by squids 3 years ago.
yes there are some things in this library presently that were not offered before to my knowledge, but will there EVER be an expansion for this?
i understand miroslav recorded small ensembles of cellos and violins for a more intimate string sound, etc. also there was apparently a solo french horn sampled WITHOUT vibrato. vibrato is a technique not applicable to french horn playing in an orchestral setting. just try playing chords with the miro solo horn and see what i mean! listen to good orchestral recordings and you hear pure tone, no wobble. if you think this is not a problem read paul gilreath's book "guide to midi orchestration" in which he complains about the horn vibrato.
i too find myself drawn to this library time and again yet also own the EWQLSO GOLD XP and many other orchestral libs. i find that the interface is much more fun to use than kontakt 3 but...
..there is a small problem with the sampletank engine that does not occur in kontakt: there is a subtle distortion or overload when playing more than one or two parts at full volume and this occurs even when the volume for each individual part is turned way down. i am very careful about setting levels in SONAR and i donnot experience this with any other plugin i use.
this is obviously a sampletank 2.5 problem as well. again, it is subtle but i have finished pieces and discovered this during the mastering stage in which the use of a little compression can bring it out, especially on loud brass chords and the full orchestra sounds.
i would like to see an overhaul of the engine to bring it's sound quality up to kontakt's level (and yes, i have played the sounds of the original library which i still have in kontakt in the same parts and the distortion is absent).
this has caused me to go back to my GOLD XP when i really want the emotion of the miroslav but can't tolerate the distortion.
this is not a glaring distortion btw, but it does show up in mastering and is not present in the original sample library.
the second problem is that the panning of the samples is too extreme and requires much work to make the mixes balanced. this may have been what miroslav wanted originally but i would like to see this tamed in an update.
and my final quibble: why has not every preset in the library have at least one version with cc#11 programmed? EWQLSO has this. GPO has cc#1, but the miro is somewhat inconsistent this way and is frustrating when you have to stop and program this in. yes, i could make my own programs and do this myself. but what a huge undertaking! i want to spend my time making music not tweaking.
this also has a side issue which has some presets not actually programmed for the controllers they claim to be. and the 'amv' programs are not consistent at all with some programs responding wildly to control changes and others almost not at all.
now i don't mean to bash here, just a look at the state of the miro after three plus years of ownership and udates.
i would like to see the promised "huge library of previously un-released stuff that miroslav sampled" and was mentioned many times here by squids 3 years ago.
yes there are some things in this library presently that were not offered before to my knowledge, but will there EVER be an expansion for this?
i understand miroslav recorded small ensembles of cellos and violins for a more intimate string sound, etc. also there was apparently a solo french horn sampled WITHOUT vibrato. vibrato is a technique not applicable to french horn playing in an orchestral setting. just try playing chords with the miro solo horn and see what i mean! listen to good orchestral recordings and you hear pure tone, no wobble. if you think this is not a problem read paul gilreath's book "guide to midi orchestration" in which he complains about the horn vibrato.
i too find myself drawn to this library time and again yet also own the EWQLSO GOLD XP and many other orchestral libs. i find that the interface is much more fun to use than kontakt 3 but...
..there is a small problem with the sampletank engine that does not occur in kontakt: there is a subtle distortion or overload when playing more than one or two parts at full volume and this occurs even when the volume for each individual part is turned way down. i am very careful about setting levels in SONAR and i donnot experience this with any other plugin i use.
this is obviously a sampletank 2.5 problem as well. again, it is subtle but i have finished pieces and discovered this during the mastering stage in which the use of a little compression can bring it out, especially on loud brass chords and the full orchestra sounds.
i would like to see an overhaul of the engine to bring it's sound quality up to kontakt's level (and yes, i have played the sounds of the original library which i still have in kontakt in the same parts and the distortion is absent).
this has caused me to go back to my GOLD XP when i really want the emotion of the miroslav but can't tolerate the distortion.
this is not a glaring distortion btw, but it does show up in mastering and is not present in the original sample library.
the second problem is that the panning of the samples is too extreme and requires much work to make the mixes balanced. this may have been what miroslav wanted originally but i would like to see this tamed in an update.
and my final quibble: why has not every preset in the library have at least one version with cc#11 programmed? EWQLSO has this. GPO has cc#1, but the miro is somewhat inconsistent this way and is frustrating when you have to stop and program this in. yes, i could make my own programs and do this myself. but what a huge undertaking! i want to spend my time making music not tweaking.
this also has a side issue which has some presets not actually programmed for the controllers they claim to be. and the 'amv' programs are not consistent at all with some programs responding wildly to control changes and others almost not at all.
now i don't mean to bash here, just a look at the state of the miro after three plus years of ownership and udates.
"..What is simple, is simply seen.."
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- KVRist
- 166 posts since 23 Nov, 2005 from Germantown MD
I've had weird distortion problems with Sampletank and Philharmonik in Sonar... but I think it's more a SONAR problem than with IKM, because I don't get the same problems with Geniesoft's Overture or Cockos Reaper. I stopped using Sonar altogether because of this problem and haven't looked back.
"In the rhythm of music a secret is hidden;
If I were to divulge it, it would overturn the world."
-- Jelaleddin Rumi
If I were to divulge it, it would overturn the world."
-- Jelaleddin Rumi
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 58 posts since 13 Aug, 2005
Something else that would be really cool in a future Philharmonik update would be the addition of a convolution sample of the Dvorak hall. Similar to what EWQL offered with their new sampleplayer PLAY.
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Reverend Rhythm Reverend Rhythm https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=6041
- KVRAF
- 2859 posts since 21 Feb, 2003 from Woodstock, GA USA
There is another thread of feature requests for SampleTank 3. I think Miro would really benifit from round robin and some alternate bowing samples. I don't know if this is even possible with the existing library, but I think it would help.
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- Sonic Reality Head Chef
- 8566 posts since 11 Mar, 2002 from Florida
SampleTank engine needs just a positive and negative for the midi control and then this could be done. This has been requested a while ago but for some reason it can't be implemented or not so easily as one would think. There might be a work around though with Macros in an update at some point though.
However, we're also going to be releasing the Miroslav archives (yes, including stuff that was never released) in most of the major sampler formats as downloadable packs here: www.downloadablesoundz.com They won't be headlined as Miroslav sounds but it will say in the credits "This is taken from the archives of Miroslav Vitous" so you can distinguish it from the many OTHER orchestral sounds we'll have for download as well from Sonic Reality and a few other sources. One thing we're also releasing is a surround sound string section. Lots of orchestral stuff on the horizon. (woops, no pun intended haha).
However, we're also going to be releasing the Miroslav archives (yes, including stuff that was never released) in most of the major sampler formats as downloadable packs here: www.downloadablesoundz.com They won't be headlined as Miroslav sounds but it will say in the credits "This is taken from the archives of Miroslav Vitous" so you can distinguish it from the many OTHER orchestral sounds we'll have for download as well from Sonic Reality and a few other sources. One thing we're also releasing is a surround sound string section. Lots of orchestral stuff on the horizon. (woops, no pun intended haha).
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- KVRer
- 6 posts since 27 Nov, 2008
Anytime soon? Credit card poised...Squids wrote:S...we're also going to be releasing the Miroslav archives (yes, including stuff that was never released) in most of the major sampler formats as downloadable packs here: www.downloadablesoundz.com
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- Sonic Reality Head Chef
- 8566 posts since 11 Mar, 2002 from Florida
Not sure about the plug-in but content from the archives of Miroslav Vitous, including the extra material I've mentioned in the past, will be available as ala carte downloads in a variety of sampler formats exclusively on www.downloadablesoundz.com It will be there early 2009. Some fancy programming with key switching and all sorts of interesting stuff will be developed with that material as well as Sonic Reality orchestral material (including a surround orchestra) so... hang in there. We've got some great orchestral sounds coming up!
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- KVRian
- 740 posts since 27 Sep, 2005 from UK
Can't w8!Squids wrote:Not sure about the plug-in but content from the archives of Miroslav Vitous, including the extra material I've mentioned in the past, will be available as ala carte downloads in a variety of sampler formats exclusively on www.downloadablesoundz.com It will be there early 2009. Some fancy programming with key switching and all sorts of interesting stuff will be developed with that material as well as Sonic Reality orchestral material (including a surround orchestra) so... hang in there. We've got some great orchestral sounds coming up!
....
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- KVRist
- 297 posts since 26 Oct, 2002
I've had problems with ST and Sonar back when I was using ST 1.idragosani wrote:I've had weird distortion problems with Sampletank and Philharmonik in Sonar... but I think it's more a SONAR problem than with IKM, because I don't get the same problems with Geniesoft's Overture or Cockos Reaper. I stopped using Sonar altogether because of this problem and haven't looked back.
By default Sonar always has controllers set to zero when stopped. Maybe that will fix it for you.
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- KVRist
- 297 posts since 26 Oct, 2002
This has always been a major knock against IK Miroslav Philharmonik. Would I have paid $499 for it? No way. Since the price drop I decided to add it to my other libraries. I also like it's simplicity if you need to do something quick.Shantar wrote:Hi everyone. Its been a while since last time I posted something here on this forum.
I have not used Miroslav for some time now since changing to Kontakt 3 (where I could use many of my old librares from the hardware sampler days...) However, I recently rediscovered how beautiful these Miro samples really are. The only thing I really miss about the Philharmonik sample player is the ability to make mod wheel crossfaded patches, like most other plugins can/already have. (Even old Roland S700 samplers could do this!!). For now, it is only possible to layer different sounds, which doesn't sound too natural imo.
I am 100% sure Philharmonik could be so much better if only IK Multimedia could implement this feature in a future update. I have many orchestral libraries, like EWQL Gold Pro XP, VSL (bundled with Kontakt), Siedaczek's AO and Choirs, Roland Orch. Fam, SOV, but overall Miroslav have shown to be my most useful and creative tool. No other library/plugin have inspired me the way Miroslav Philharmonik has. I can make fairly decent sounding compositions with Philharmonik as it is, but I feel I need this crossfade feature to be able to breath more life and dynamics into my works.
I know Miroslav is not as thoroughly sampled as newer libraries, but I'm sure it would make a difference being able to crossfade between soft violins and exp violins to give an example.
Take care,
-Chris
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- KVRer
- 6 posts since 27 Nov, 2008
Still very interested in this Miroslav and orchestral stuff...any news?Squids wrote:Not sure about the plug-in but content from the archives of Miroslav Vitous, including the extra material I've mentioned in the past, will be available as ala carte downloads in a variety of sampler formats exclusively on www.downloadablesoundz.com It will be there early 2009. Some fancy programming with key switching and all sorts of interesting stuff will be developed with that material as well as Sonic Reality orchestral material (including a surround orchestra) so... hang in there. We've got some great orchestral sounds coming up!