Overloud TH1 Guitar System released!

[koolkeys]

I think you are incorrect that it can't be true. It depends on how they modeled the behavior. You don't HAVE to have impulses of every position to have an accurate response. Dozens of plugins are modeled on hardware and realistic response. Instruments, effects, etc. And many of them are accurate.

Maybe wait until you can try the demo and see before making a judgement of what they did or didn't do, or how realistic it is?

Brent

[hibidy]

I dunno, I think it is im-probable to have those positions down......certainly not saying you CAN'T.

I most certainly will try it when they finally release it, but honestly, unless it's like a certain 3 amp software emu ( ) where having the mic anywhere other than up on the speaker created that crappy latency/phase sound, it will be fine

IK's is that way, sounds awsome!

[koolkeys]

I'm not even trying to say that it IS that way. But he dismissed it without even having a chance to try it yet(that feature, at least). It may very well not do what he says, I have no idea. I do know you can swap the phase on the mics, so there is at least a MINIMUM of attention to mic phase going on. I don't know how the actual modeling is.

But even if it doesn't do that, some people are so literal that they forget that this is just modeling in the best quality possible that is the goal. Being 100% real isn't yet possible. Maybe I just don't look at things the same way and I don't take things too literally?

Brent

[hibidy]

, I wasn't really directing anything at you (hope you know that!) just thinking of a "three amp" sim that was AWFUL in the mic-movement arena.......I mean, it was BAD!

I have no doubt that whatever method they use will at least be good......since all the very nice sounding demos have been released.......nothing weird sounding in them.

[koolkeys]

In the video Simone posted, I believe there was some moving around of the mic. It's on like page three or something of this thread. I haven't listened to it for a while though.

Brent

[Niksounds]

Full control over mic placement = you have it

Sorry, but this cant be true

Full control would mean you captured impulses of the modeled head going through the actual speaker at every point in the room. Because that's what you can do with the real amp, cab, mic, and room

If full control, to you, means you can move a little picture of a mic around on your computer screen that simulates, using reverb, its location--well, I dont call that anything but using reverb.

Moving a real mic does not just change the sounds spacial information. It changes it phase and voicing. A move of the mic can make the cabinet sound like a different cabinet was used. Reverb or room sound will not change voicing.

Real full control would mean 2 mics could cancel each other out at the right distance. I highly doubt this will happen in TH1. And if it does not-- it is not like moving around a mic

Dont misunderstand me though..if it sounds good, and you have many voicing and phasing options, that would be great. But modeling companies are all taking a huge shortcut when the technology is already available to shoot hundreds of impulses, from a particular head, mic, and cab, and string them together just as Impulse based EQ's do(Tritone digital Hydrotone etc)

This technique is virtually flawless and sounds identical to the real mic'd cab--but no one wants to do the work

i think the same

The speaker has distortion inside, udible or subtle depending to sounding.. i think this is really heavy to emulate in a "full mic placement control" situation. The room is variable also.. but ok, there are tricks with reverbs..

But.. i wait for the demo!! i'm hoping ..

Becouse i don't have found also today, a really good emu of preamp.
Do you have tryed a real preamp in line input + impulses?

A engl 540? a studio preamp directly in audioboard + impulses?

The result is AMAZING.. compared to all emus in market. A m a z i n g.

Ok for the price, i have a used preamp now also.
And for today, there isn't paragon.

The a/b test is ridicolous, for many aspects (body, dynamic, sustain...argh)

[susiwong]

Do you have tryed a real preamp in line input + impulses?

A engl 540? a studio preamp directly in audioboard + impulses?

The result is AMAZING.. compared to all emus in market. A m a z i n g.

Ok for the price, i have a used preamp now also.
And for today, there isn't paragon.

The a/b test is ridicolous, for many aspects (body, dynamic, sustain...argh)

Same here.
I'm still waiting for an ampsim that can compare in quality with my tube preamps (Mesa, Marshall, Soldano).
And they still can't hold a candle to a real, well miked amp.
Who knows, TH1 might be the first.
If only they'd post some demos of really challenging clean / semi clean sounds, pure amp with only a bit of reverb where applicable.
Don't get me wrong, Dimitar is a wonderful musician and his demos sound fantastic, but melodic metal is only one style among many.

Ymmv,
susiwong

[ccosta]

Full control over mic placement = you have it

Sorry, but this cant be true

Full control would mean you captured impulses of the modeled head going through the actual speaker at every point in the room. Because that's what you can do with the real amp, cab, mic, and room

If full control, to you, means you can move a little picture of a mic around on your computer screen that simulates, using reverb, its location--well, I dont call that anything but using reverb.

Moving a real mic does not just change the sounds spacial information. It changes it phase and voicing. A move of the mic can make the cabinet sound like a different cabinet was used. Reverb or room sound will not change voicing.

Real full control would mean 2 mics could cancel each other out at the right distance. I highly doubt this will happen in TH1. And if it does not-- it is not like moving around a mic

Dont misunderstand me though..if it sounds good, and you have many voicing and phasing options, that would be great. But modeling companies are all taking a huge shortcut when the technology is already available to shoot hundreds of impulses, from a particular head, mic, and cab, and string them together just as Impulse based EQ's do(Tritone digital Hydrotone etc)

This technique is virtually flawless and sounds identical to the real mic'd cab--but no one wants to do the work

Could you elaborate more on this please ?

Ive already given up on amp-sims ( they are nice for quick demos. etc but thats it ) but I like to be informed of all options avaiavle.

IMHO, for the price of certain amp-sims , you cab buy a nice little tube amp, a SM57 and rec some real tones. Do we really need 1000 amps / setups that neves sound "real" ?

[hibidy]

IMHO, for the price of certain amp-sims , you cab buy a nice little tube amp, a SM57 and rec some real tones. Do we really need 1000 amps / setups that neves sound "real" ?

My neighbors would kill me

[buscemi]

IMHO, for the price of certain amp-sims , you cab buy a nice little tube amp, a SM57 and rec some real tones. Do we really need 1000 amps / setups that neves sound "real" ?

My neighbors would kill me

Exactly. I've got some tube amps but still see the value of good sims. They fit fine within a mix usually, and can be recorded at 2AM here. Aside from getting a Dead Room or similar isolation box, creating a room-within-a-room in our houses, or paying for studio time, that's the solution for many of us.

[meloco_go]

Exactly. I've got some tube amps but still see the value of good sims. They fit fine within a mix usually, and can be recorded at 2AM here. Aside from getting a Dead Room or similar isolation box, creating a room-within-a-room in our houses, or paying for studio time, that's the solution for many of us.

Actually you can have a tube guitar pre and use ampsim only for cab simulation. That'd probably be the wisest solution as DSP distortion is a b*tch to get right.

[ccosta]

IMHO, for the price of certain amp-sims , you cab buy a nice little tube amp, a SM57 and rec some real tones. Do we really need 1000 amps / setups that neves sound "real" ?

My neighbors would kill me

Ive recorded some nice sounds at low level.

And now their are some nice options:

http://www.surprisesoundlab.com
http://www.blackhearteng.com/bh1h.html
http://www.thomann.de/gb/blackstar_ht_5_head.htm

They are on my buying / wish list

But I respect the dvelopers work and amp-sims are getting better and better, even some free ones can kick the paying stuff ass.

Maybe in the future, for now im spending my money on the real thing.

[Simone Coen]

"You can move the microphones in 3D dimension"

Already done :

http://softube.se/vintage_amp_room.php
http://softube.se/metal_amp_room.php

But no mic selection.

Maybe thats why TH1 took more time: its a resume of the best features in other amp-sims.

But my thing is TONE and FEEL.

No, with those ones your left with limited positions even if you see things in 3D.
Metal Amp Room will allow you to get away from the cab and to move the mic on the X axis (on half of the speaker)
With TH1 you MOVE the mics and hear the continuous change in sound... look at the video I posted above

[Simone Coen]

Release is delayed to late october, or early november... sorry about that, but last minute changes always arise and it's better to release something fixed than not working...

[Simone Coen]

To make it clear:
- we measured EACH CAB in a lot of different positions
- we apply some 'magic' to get the continuous and seamless change in mic positioning
- we DON'T use any reverb technique to emulate that 'movement' feeling
- you CAN ADD (only if you want) a room 'reverb' sound of your taste to the mic's signal which gets dialed in proportionally to the distance from the speakers. You CAN, you don't HAVE TO

Of course we're not revealing our trade secrets over here on how we achieve that, but it's achievable.

someone was mentioning latency:
- TH1 has an inherent latency of 4 samples
- Cabinets: having two mics, we behave like this. The Mic nearest to the speakers (even if it's at 80 cm) will get a ZERO latency. The eventually added second mic will be delayed by the distance from the cabinet. This way you have full phase cancellations as you'd have in a real situation, but with no real percieved latency. Better than reality (where, if you only use 1 Mic, far away in the room, you'll have some deal of 'latency')