How to pick time signature, key, tempo, etc...

[RyanG]

Hey guys.

I suck at music... so I'll take any advice I can get on this.

When you start composing a song, how do you pick what time signature you're going to use? How about the tempo? Key?

This has always eluded me, especially time signature, because there's a strange correlation between time signature and tempo (e.g. 6/4@120bpm is way faster than 4/4@120bpm).

Any help would be great, thanks.

[MaliceX]

Hey guys.

I suck at music... so I'll take any advice I can get on this.

When you start composing a song, how do you pick what time signature you're going to use? How about the tempo? Key?

This has always eluded me, especially time signature, because there's a strange correlation between time signature and tempo (e.g. 6/4@120bpm is way faster than 4/4@120bpm).

Any help would be great, thanks.

That's incorrect.

6/8@120BPM would be faster than 4/4@120BPM, simply because the beat size has decreased size, and perhaps would give the impression speed has doubled (if it were 4/8 that is, in comparison to 4/4)

All the time signature does is give you the definition of timing, a bit like a 'ruler' in music.

Picking keys, you'd have to learn the diatonic scale in all 12 keys to understand that. Best method to do that is to use the Circle of Fourths/Cycle of Fifths, which you can find here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circle_of_fourths

[RyanG]

Hey guys.

I suck at music... so I'll take any advice I can get on this.

When you start composing a song, how do you pick what time signature you're going to use? How about the tempo? Key?

This has always eluded me, especially time signature, because there's a strange correlation between time signature and tempo (e.g. 6/4@120bpm is way faster than 4/4@120bpm).

Any help would be great, thanks.

That's incorrect.

6/8@120BPM would be faster than 4/4@120BPM, simply because the beat size has decreased size, and perhaps would give the impression speed has doubled (if it were 4/8 that is, in comparison to 4/4)

I suck at music...

Yeah, you're right.

[MaliceX]

See the edited reply above.

Key signatures simply define the relative pitch of a score based on its tonic note to its diatonic scale, so you don't have to keep writing accidental symbols all the time.

[zerocrossing]

Give it time, give it time.

What DAW are you using? In Live there's a "tap" button. Tap in the speed you're feeling. There's your bpm. I bet there are some VSTs or apps that'll give you a similar feature if your DAW doesn't have it.

Stick with 4/4 for a while. There's nothing wrong with that. Lot's of musicians have never moved past that and a there's a ton of good music in 4/4. Especially dance music.

Time signature was always a mystery to me. Weird things like 7/4 baffled me. I couldn't imagine it. Slowly I started listening to music that was using odd time signatures. It sunk in. One day I was introducing a song to my band and the drummer was all "what the hell are you doing... oh this is in 7/4." I just thought I wrote something kind of bouncy. Look at me all prog rock! That's the lesson you learn from listening to King Crimson, Pink Floyd and the Beatles.

Key? Maybe start here. Pick a white key. Any one will do. Choose a pad or organ sound. Hold that note down and start fooling around with the rest of the white keys (for now) and listen. Really listen. Do this exercise a lot. Maybe have be your warm up. After a while you'll just know it. Maybe keep a drum loop going later. Look at you, you're improvising.

[Lotuzia]

Time signature is really easy to understand : Its simply the number of BEATS per BAR, and the VALUE of the beat

So some examples :

4/4 = 4 quarter notes per bar

5/4 = 5 quarter notes per bar

7/8 = 7 Eight notes per bar

9/8 = 9 Eight notes per bar.

3/4 = 3 Quarter notes per bar (ie like in waltz/Jazz Waltz)


Training counting n° of beats in bars : Mission impossible, Mannix theme, Money (P Floyd), aso

Hope this helps (Recurrent Nessie Topic )


LtZ

[Lunatique]

Tempo is easy to decide on because if you're any kind of a decent composer you'd be able to hear the music in your head before even touching an instrument. If you can't, then while improvising on an instrument you'd establish the tempo that way. If you can't play an instrument and you can't hear the music in your head, then I could see how it could be tough, since clicking around in the pianoroll isn't exactly an effective way to compose--unless you've trained yourself to click the mouse rhythmically like an instrument...

Time signature and key also come to me in the same way--they're determined by what I hear in my head or what I'm playing on an instrument. Once again, if you can't play or can't hear music in your head, then you'd have a hard time deciding what time signature or key to use.

[zerocrossing]

Time signature is really easy to understand : Its simply the number of BEATS per BAR, and the VALUE of the beat

Oh yeah, easy to understand, but hard to do if you're not used to it... odd time signatures at least. Not including 3/4 at least. We're used to that one as it is used a lot in waltzes. 5/4, 7/4 and 9/4 (and so on) are a lot harder to get used to just because they're a lot more rare.

[RyanG]

Give it time, give it time.

What DAW are you using? In Live there's a "tap" button. Tap in the speed you're feeling. There's your bpm. I bet there are some VSTs or apps that'll give you a similar feature if your DAW doesn't have it.

Stick with 4/4 for a while. There's nothing wrong with that. Lot's of musicians have never moved past that and a there's a ton of good music in 4/4. Especially dance music.

Time signature was always a mystery to me. Weird things like 7/4 baffled me. I couldn't imagine it. Slowly I started listening to music that was using odd time signatures. It sunk in. One day I was introducing a song to my band and the drummer was all "what the hell are you doing... oh this is in 7/4." I just thought I wrote something kind of bouncy. Look at me all prog rock! That's the lesson you learn from listening to King Crimson, Pink Floyd and the Beatles.

Key? Maybe start here. Pick a white key. Any one will do. Choose a pad or organ sound. Hold that note down and start fooling around with the rest of the white keys (for now) and listen. Really listen. Do this exercise a lot. Maybe have be your warm up. After a while you'll just know it. Maybe keep a drum loop going later. Look at you, you're improvising.

Thanks, this is good advice.
Unfortunately, I'm using FL Studio (which I'm becoming less and less fond of), so I don't think there's a tap option like in Live.
I think part of my problem with tempo is that I generally don't have a good idea of what I'm composing when I start on a song. I'll try to put more thought into the planning process, since I tend to have better results when I have a set goal.
When using keys, I generally keep to D or G, however after I've created a melody I'll sometimes transpose it around a bit to see if other keys work better for my song.

[jancivil]

Wouldn't the IDEA you have 'pick the time', etc out, and you just have to find out what that means in terms of describing it??

[buckshead]

Its a recurring theme on this part of the forum. People who claim to have no idea about music want to know "how to" one thing or another. By all means ask but for crying out loud: " I don't know whuch key to use or what key signature to use or what tempo to use."

Music is an art and you have to learn the techniques.
For example:
Q: What tempo should I use ?
A: What is it that you want to write, if its a modern "anthem" then its got to be the same as all the others OR is it jazz, rock, blues, a symphony, a concerto.If its aimed at the charts, mostly its 4:4 so count 1,2,3,4 in time with a piece of similar music. There's plenty of beat counters out there (free) OR play along with the music, make a midi track of a single note going beep on every beat. Play 15 bars, thats 60 beats. Check the time you can work out the bpm.

Q: What key:
A: What instrument are you writing for ? If you write in D, thats 2 sharps, brass and sax players will hate it, they find sharp keys hard to play, write in flat keys for them. Poor guitar players love E, it lays neatly under the hand. Some chordal parts are unplayable in some keys on guitar. If its a harp, the more flats the better, the natural scale of the harp is Cb !

What style of music do you want to write. You need to understand song structure or things won't work out. 8 bars, 12 bars, 16 bars 32 bars, Verse chorus bridge chorus. These are used all the time because they work.

You need to have mastered the basics long before you try to write 15 bar lines in 7:4 time.

Please, by all means ask but do some serious study first, learn the basics. You won't get anywhere without basic knowledge.

[xoxos]

if you're only using a phillips screwdriver and hammer for your project, is it necessary to learn the circular router yet?

[buckshead]

It helps if you know which is the wood. and it really helps if you know what you want to make.
If you bang a nail in near the edge the wood splits, you need to know how close you can go to the edge. Its training and experience

[The Fex]

If you already have the beginnings of a tune (in your head, on your guitar, whatever), then the key can be determined by the root note that the song naturally resolves to.... the note you could sing/play all the way through the tune (and if it doesn't sound quite right, at least it doesn't sound quite wrong).

If you're just starting out in music, with the computer as your main instrument, then try writing the happy stuff in C major and the sad stuff in A minor, so you don't have to worry about sharps and flats (the black notes), and then transpose to another key later.

You probably don't need to worry too much about time signature.... most songs are in 4/4. Count along in your head, and see if it feels right. However, do listen to some stuff in 3/4 and 6/8 to get a feel for these (forget the others for now, they're relatively obscure). Or just switch the metronome on at these signatures, and listen to them until you get it.

I downloaded some general MIDI of 'London's Burning' for a kids' project once, and the nicest arrangement I could find, while sounding perfectly alright, had been programmed in 4/4. It took me a while to sort out that mess.... it must have been a real nightmare for the arranger, and one which could easily have been avoided with a moment's thought. I've made similar mistakes myself in the past, and had to re-do a few hour's work, which taught me a valuable lesson; if ever you're finding it hard to place notes, or using a lot of dotted notes, or your bar lines just don't fall in sensible places, do consider the possibility that you're a moron.

[Sixofour]

32 bar progression would be insane.