help a newbie with neapolitan sixth

[nuffink]

NOT really like the b5 substitute for the dominant in bebop, as nuffink wants it to be, at all.

You know what? You're absolutely right, well done. I can't remember what point I was trying to make or even whether I was sober at the time. But then it was a month ago.

[jancivil]

My oh my, I wish there was a thing whereby I could just click on the chord designation in these threads, and hear an audio file of it. In context, of course! I can follow about half of what's in here, but without formal theory training I can see the other half flying by slightly above my cranium somewhere...

My ears hear the N6 thing as a highbrow minor key version of what any number of folk/countryish songs might do, say in the key of D, finishing on the chords C, A7, D, with melody going C, C#, D.
Stick it in the relative minor and put those same melody notes over C, F#, Bm chords, give the C chord an E bass note and, voila, instant N6, yes?

I guess thats why I had trouble understanding that N6 terminology, my ears hear it as an inversion of a b2, not an augmented 4... despite what the common terminology is, my brain says the other thing when I hear it.

But those clickable chords would be nice to be able to hear the finer points.

Forget about that aug 4 or flat 5. (when you go from say ii (in C, a d minor) to a flat II (b5 or no), you are going from a 'subdominant' to a dominant, in function. EG: When you do the '7 b5' number on it, it's the same as V7 b5 (in C, Db F G B), therefore it functions as a dominant.

N6: Subdominant function. Plagal function (amen cadence is another example of subdom function) when it goes to i or I; or it proceeds to the dominant (which it does in your example).

Your chord progression gets the basic idea right, but ignores the context of voice-leading which the actual practice period arrived at to give us this harmony. (Which may or may not enrich the experience of this sound for you.)

[someone called simon]

jancivil...

Re 1st para... yes , i see that 'functional' aspect. That's probably the description that ties most closely into how my ears hear things. Funny, I just remembered where I first heard that chord, and wondered what the hell it was.. a Bb7b5, resolving to an A (i think was the key). I definitely see how thats a dominant, a twist on an E chord. But the song I first heard it in was an Eagles song! How unlikely is that?!

Re 2nd para... N6 subdominant plagal cadence. Thats quite a nice sound. F/A to E (guitar chord point of view sneaking through)

Re 3rd para... No i don't know much about voice leading... but if I was to do another variation on the F/A to E thing... eg A6 to F7/B to E, and I'm picturing these notes, low to high:

A6: A, E, A, C#, F#
F7/B: B, Eb, A, C, F
E E, E G#, B, E

is that voice leading? I was kind of thinking it meant 4 part vocal harmonies, with Bach looking over your shoulder?

[jancivil]

Yes. Unless you're trying to sound like Bach, don't let him spook you.

[Ogg Vorbis]

I heard that if you do a tritone substitution in Reason, it crashes like an unchecked divide by zero operation.

[jancivil]

jancivil...

Re 1st para... yes , i see that 'functional' aspect. That's probably the description that ties most closely into how my ears hear things. Funny, I just remembered where I first heard that chord, and wondered what the hell it was.. a Bb7b5, resolving to an A (i think was the key). I definitely see how thats a dominant, a twist on an E chord. But the song I first heard it in was an Eagles song! How unlikely is that?!

Re 2nd para... N6 subdominant plagal cadence. Thats quite a nice sound. F/A to E (guitar chord point of view sneaking through)

Re 3rd para... No i don't know much about voice leading... but if I was to do another variation on the F/A to E thing... eg A6 to F7/B to E, and I'm picturing these notes, low to high:

A6: A, E, A, C#, F#
F7/B: B, Eb, A, C, F
E E, E G#, B, E

is that voice leading? I was kind of thinking it meant 4 part vocal harmonies, with Bach looking over your shoulder?

If anyone is going to write for orchestra, serious consideration of voice leading is a GOOD idea. to begin with 4 parts is "basic". Get that down first, is my advice. (you seem a quick study btw)

try this with your progression (I'm guessing the B/C 'clash' in the second chord is a bit much):

('part writing' aka voice-leading>horizontally; look at the vertical alignment for that aspect)

sopr: A - A - G#
alto: C# - B - B
ten.: E - D# - E
bass: F# - F - E