Overloud TH1 Guitar System released!

[morelia]

Never used PACE before. Now I have it installed and I am not aware of any problems. I do dislike anything other that serial number though. Strange how different companies percieve the relationship between copy protection, licenced users, and illegal version users. Maybe there should be a Symposium of KVR Registered Audio Software Developers (or SOKRASD for short) to come up with a best option for everyone protection system. Is there any real data on the effect of piracy on the actual bottom line of a software company. I expect it would have to be a quiz with illegal software users, asking questions like "if you can't download an illegal version, can you afford to buy the licensed version? Would you save up for it? etc.

Anyway, back to the important issue. Overloud TH1 is fantastic IMO. I won't go into detail except that I find it very easy to work with. Even just a little movement of the mike placement can sometimes be enough to get the sound I want.

What is the simplest way to get a nice doubled guitar track with one channel slightly delayed.

[Simone Coen]

Hi guys,

let me state some things.

1) copy protection is a must for a company like ours. In our fight to reach for the shelves in the stores most retailers ASK for copy protection (and especially iLok) since they feel their investment is more secure this way (and I have to agree with them about this)

2) PACE is not as good as it could be, but it is still the best non-proprietary system around here: Syncrosoft doesn't do at all for us (and it is also VERY expensive for a developer) and had more problems than PACE in our experience with it.

3) We'd love to introduce our own C/P system some day (I like a lot the Fxpansion one for example), but it requires a big effort to do that because: we are no security experts, we need to build a lot of infrastructure (web, server and user side) in order to have a rather good working C/P system.
This said, even if we do so, we will still have the option for iLok system since IT IS VERY ASKED FOR.
I know you might think over here that everyone hates iLoks, but our own research and statistics show how many people rely and PREFER iLok over any other C/P system around.

4) C/P is a hot source of discussion and everyone has his own tastes over this matter: I for one (Eric please forgive me) don't like that much the actual Spectrasonic system, I love iLok (once you get into it you'll love it), I like Fxpansion-like system (even the NI one is rather ok even if it's very bulky IMHO). Serial-only is a mixed bag for me: I had my license canceled by a developer (a big one) because one of my assistants 'stole' my serials for these products and started giving them away, so those serials were (rightfully) blacklisted in those apps.

5) Looking at history I mostly see developer turning from serial to C/P systems (look at fxpansio and many others) and almost never the other way around: this should raise some question in you regarding the amount of -not-so-causal- sharing going on with simple 'serial' authorization systems.
Copy protection is made to prevent casual copying (you giving your soft to all your friends) and not to defeat the work of big cracking associations (I remember Radium from the old, old days, for example): you can make them delay the release of a crack and sometimes even make them give up on cracking something (it's happening a lot lately as far as I know) but it's not a full life insurance for a developer

6) being a small developer with high expenses (there's 7 of us involved almost full time in it now and we all need to make a living out of this) we can't afford to have a software released only via a simple serial authorization, Apple can afford this (for example) also because it might help them selling more computers, but on our side, well, we have to make sure we have the highest return on investment possible and the only way (proved along the years of our experience) to achieve that is through copy protection.

7) This said, I know most of the people using cracks is people who's never going to buy your products anyway, but it surely pissed me off a lot when I realized that not only poor students were using copied versions of my former 'software-adventures' but also hi-level professionals whose income is nowhere near to the one I would ever be able to achieve in 10 years of hard work

ADDITIONALLY:
I'll do my best (and this is my mission now) to have PACE release an uninstaller (true) or something like that. WE are the client, not you (for them) so WE are in charge of pressuring them on these issues. I fully recognize this might be a big trouble for some of you and we are aware of that

LASTLY:
thanks to the many guys (over here and everywhere else) who are putting faith in us and buying the product so early before the demo time ends.
TH1 has eaten our time (work, free, family, sleep-times) almost entirely for almost 2 years (not to talk about the audio engine which has 6 years of development behind it) and it's great to see people loving it (even those not wanting to mess with PACE).
Thank you.

[MelodyMan]

Great stuff. Thanks Simone for your hard work and a great product. My money is on your way soon.

[susiwong]

Hi Simone,
thanks for your detailed and honest statement.
I can relate to most you said, though from a user's perspective the priorities are a bit different, obviously.
Let me put it this way:
-- if you come up with any non-PACE solution (Syncrosoft still preferred, but a proprietary C/R will do) your products will be high on my list to evaluate and possibly buy.
-- if anybody can provide a precise walkthrough to get rid of PACE completely in case of emergency (important : both from a still functioning Windows as well as from, say, a BartPE CD !!) I might even consider accepting iLok.
Somehow I doubt this will happen though, users (and probably devs) have been asking about that for years. Prove me wrong !
-- one other little comment:
Shops obviously prefer MAC and iLok solutions since both greatly increase their chance of future sales, again many users have good reasons to decide differently High quality PCs can easily be built yourself saving big money, freeware, downloadable software on the PC side and far better configurability, not even talking about the Apple-/Digi quasi-monopoly in the MAC world.
Cheers,
susiwong

[fas1piano]

thanks, simone, for your answer to my keyboard related question! i am still wondering if the blackface and matching cabs sound that different from your former american clean amp simulations...

so, i would really love to try th-1 and i generally accept copy protection.

i have these 2 questions:

- do i have to buy an ilok to try out the demo?

- if i install the demo on my XP system, what harm can PACE do to my system? if i create a windows system restore point before installing the demo, will i be able to remove PACE afterwards? or do i need a complete system backup ?

thanks,
fab

[fanfarecircuit]

you don't need an ilok to try the demo or buythe program. it offers pace challenge/response too.

the other questions, i don't know.

[koolkeys]

- if i install the demo on my XP system, what harm can PACE do to my system? if i create a windows system restore point before installing the demo, will i be able to remove PACE afterwards? or do i need a complete system backup ?

thanks,
fab

Every system is different, but don't get the wrong idea about PACE. The MAJORITY of people who use it do not have issues with it. It's the most often used protection in the pro circles especially, but it's very widely used and the chances that it will work just fine are very very good. It doesn't hurt to do a system restore point or have a ghost image from the point before you install it. But I doubt you will have to use it. The backing up of things can be good regardless so this can give you an excuse to do it.

But I wouldn't worry too much. YMMV.

Brent

[Scotty]

An honest and direct response such as given by Simone to the c/r concern, almost instantly increases the credibility of the company and help to soften the more extreme opinions expressed on this very controversial talking point. It also personalizes the debate as we can see real people, taking financial risks, attached to a project with real dreams and goals in mind. Real people with families to support, in a challenging marketplace and economy , is a compelling factor in this debate. It must be very tempting for the developer to jump in with both feet when some of the threads concerning copy protection schemes turn toxic. One response, such as the helpful post by Simone , will probably have many of us attempt to "moderate" those more extreme respondants using balanced arguments in the hopes that developers will continue to be encouraged to create and lend life to their ideas and passions.

[kingswood6]

Been demoing--great product.

Scotty, your post above is one of the most level-headed, insightful posts I've ever read.

Regards,
Bill

[spinedoc]

you sold me as long as you get pace to release an uninstaller.

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

Hi guys,

4) C/P is a hot source of discussion and everyone has his own tastes over this matter: I for one (Eric please forgive me) don't like that much the actual Spectrasonic system, I love iLok (once you get into it you'll love it), I like Fxpansion-like system (even the NI one is rather ok even if it's very bulky IMHO). Serial-only is a mixed bag for me: I had my license canceled by a developer (a big one) because one of my assistants 'stole' my serials for these products and started giving them away, so those serials were (rightfully) blacklisted in those apps.

Simone, if you guys create a proprietary FXpansion like C/R system, I'll give TH-1 a serious look. I understand the benefits of iLok, and would encourage you to keep it as an option, but I just won't do PACE personally (iLok and especially not their version of CR). The FXPansion system works great IMO.

...And Now The Rant:

The fact that PACE C/R starts installing and hiding drivers on your machine that you can't easily get rid of even after you're done with the product brings up a lot of concerns for me. Remember when Sony tried something similar with CD's? It turned bad for them.

For instance, I already have a PACE folder on my PC and I can't even say for sure what plugin put it there. In the last couple of weeks I've become 90% sure it was my (paid for) copy of the Princeton Digital 2016 Stereo Room. Well guess what? Now that I've identified it as the culprit, I'm going to delete the plugin from my drive (money down the drain) and try and go through the fun of seeing if I can uninstall PACE. The worst? Nowhere in the 2016 did it specifically ask if I'd like to install PACE. I would have said no. I'm not even entirely sure that it was the 2016 that put the PACE there, or if other plugins have done the same. I'm pretty sure it's just that one though. Oh, and stability wise, the 2016 crashes Sonar constantly on my machine anyway. While I don't know that the PACE C/R scheme is definitely responsible for the crashes, I have a strong suspicion that it may be.

Frankly, the PACE C/R method is both scary and disguisting IMO. There's a very Orwellian vibe to the way they've chosen to implement their protection that as a consumer I'm not ok with. And I vote with my wallet. Instead of buying TH-1, I ordered some new pickups for my strat that cost just as much. I was going to give TH-1 the chance and maybe hold off on the PU's, but the PACE thing made my decision for me. Honestly, listening to the demos, there's a good chance I would have spent the money on the TH-1 instead.

Strangely, their iLok is far less instrusive from a ststem perspective, and that's why I'm far more ok with that one. It makes sense for large studios, producers on the go, etc. My only problem with iLok is that on my one machine project studio there are fewer benefits to make it an attractive option, and it's made by the PACE folks. I don't want to support them at all.

Also Simone, if you're ever bored read through this older article http://www.prorec.com/Articles/tabid/10 ... erlok.aspx. This is where the PACE C/R scheme starting getting it's bad public reputation. The reviewer had so many restarts and lost licenses because of PACE, that he decided to make the review about the copy protection instead of the product. Sure, PACE have since fixed those issues, but is that the kind of stuff I want to open up my DAW too?

[Dean Aka Nekro]

WARNING:

I installed the 1.0.1 update, and it told me my system clock was wrong, before the release date. How, I don't know...this is a daw only machine, I never check or use the date for anything, but it was a week early somehow.

Anyway I corrected this, then the demo told me I had only 4 days left instead of 11...I thought what a ripoff, I've only just got started with it. So I returned the date to the previous one...BAD MOVE.

Now it said 'your trial is ended'...aaargh! So I think, I'll clean my system and reinstall it (you can tell I know nothing about PACE at this point).

After trying to remove PACE from my system for hours, reading countless pages about other users problems too, and talking with techheads, I conclude the only sure way to remove this insidious, intrusive shit is to restore your system to a pre-PACE ghost point...which unfortunately for me is a while back.

So to conclude, my demo ended abruptly, I feel ripped off, and I'm left with a virus-like program on my computer, which to remove requires restoring an image and then anything I've installed since (like Reaper, nebula updates, etc).

So my warning is: ghost an image immediately before installing TH-1, or you may not be able to remove this PACE crap later.

No wonder so many people hate this PACE shit. f**k them, and f**k Overloud for using it. I will not touch this with a bargepole now.

Get something like 'Acronis True Image' and this little bad boy has saved my ass many a time a virus or other problems have struck. It really is worth the investment. Anyways here is a link to thier site:

http://www.acronis.com/

Not to mention that if you have a hard drive(internal or external) made by either Seagate or Maxtor, you can get Acronis for free. It's a branded version, but the only requirement is that the hard drive by that manufacturer has to be connected to use the software. You don't even have to use the hard drive itself. It just has to be there somewhere on the system or on a USB or Firewire port or whatever. I use it and it's fantastic. Plus, it lets you browse the disk images you create and the program has the ability to create a boot disk so you can run the entire program upon boot. Great stuff, and free! Check this thread for the links:

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=201085

Brent

Hey Brent yes that is exactly how i got my copy (called OEM edition or something like that > im not very good with software and computers unless its an audio application. So much so that is quite embaressing ). The program is pretty much priceless i think. There are probably many ways to backup all your system drive but TrueImage just works so well, so easily that it leaves me with one less thing to worry about and piece of mind is very important in a virtual enviroment!

Take care friend and best regards

Dean

[fanfarecircuit]

i notice also that th1 has a pretty slow startup time. is that related to the pace drivers loading?

[Sascha Franck]

i notice also that th1 has a pretty slow startup time. is that related to the pace drivers loading?

Well, on my machine (a Macbook, using Logic 8), it's quite faster than, say, Guitar Rig 3, both in terms of initial startup times and tweaking speed.

[fanfarecircuit]

i notice also that th1 has a pretty slow startup time. is that related to the pace drivers loading?

Well, on my machine (a Macbook, using Logic , it's quite faster than, say, Guitar Rig 3, both in terms of initial startup times and tweaking speed.

hmmm... i'm also on a macbook but trying the standalone in windows. it's not a huge deal, just wondering if pace has something to do with it.

and one more time, the demo sounds great. not trying to imply anything with my question.