How to compose not starting at root note of a scale ?

[Subtle]

Alright, whenever i try and compose something in a scale, lets say A Minor scale.

Usually i would start with the root chord (i think its the right term) meaning i would start with I (A-C-E) and go from there.

But ive noticed alot of tracks does not start at the I (A-C-E) point, but somewhere else on the scale.

I know there are no spesific rules, but what would be the most appropriate starting points if i where to start somewhere else than the root chord of the scale?

Im fairly new to this so my explanation may not be correct, but i hope u understand what i mean.

[trewq]

If your stuck wondering how to start an intro, don't think intro.

I don't think I can help if you need basic chord theory, but I'll
tell you what I do, maybe it will help.
When I start with something, it rarely ends up being the intro. It may be something (a seed) that leads somewhere, but may end up being discarded.

The finished track is usually the result of choosing pieces of music that came from experimenting on a seed or seeds, and what ends up being the intro might be the last decision you make. There's much you can do, if your software allows it, like borrowing or mixing channels among the pieces, and deriving other patterns from seed patterns, and so on.

[beauchamp]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musical_mode

[Subtle]

Thanks for the replies. (ill try ur tip about starting at different places)

Basically what i want to know is some appropriate starting points.

Like a progression of: I-VI-IV-V is a pretty common one.

Where would i start if i do not want to start at I and how do i know im still in the same key when my starting point is not I

[nuffink]

Here's a little rule of thumb...
"Up by 2nd, Down by 3rd, Up by 4th, Down by 5th
except V and vii°, which do not resolve to iii/III"

Lifted from... http://smu.edu/totw/function.htm

Start on any scale degree and work your way to the tonic, applying the rule, using as few or as many steps as you like.

Please note, this is a rule of thumb, not an iron law.

[Subtle]

Here's a little rule of thumb...
"Up by 2nd, Down by 3rd, Up by 4th, Down by 5th
except V and vii°, which do not resolve to iii/III"

Lifted from... http://smu.edu/totw/function.htm

I dont understand quite what that means, ive looked at the site, but i cant read note sheets.

[jancivil]

Here's a little rule of thumb...
"Up by 2nd, Down by 3rd, Up by 4th, Down by 5th
except V and vii°, which do not resolve to iii/III"

Lifted from... http://smu.edu/totw/function.htm

Start on any scale degree and work your way to the tonic, applying the rule, using as few or as many steps as you like.

Please note, this is a rule of thumb, not an iron law.

Gee, I'd hope not. That'd be like an Iron Maiden. Doesn't that chafe a bit? Would this thing?

Anyway to the OP, by 'a 2nd', count a letter name: b to c. 'A third' = two letter names, d to b. Like that.

[jancivil]

double post.

[jancivil]

But, more essentially, why is it that you think you want to 'compose' something?

This business of 'what chord tone', the safe direction of the intervals in a line, etc., are artifices. Useful when you're stuck, that kinda thing. Scales aren't music.

What is it you like to hear, that you want to emulate?

Cop those licks. Train your ear a little. Get to where you remember how things seem to be formed. THEN:

Go sing in the shower. Try to make up a melody, SING IT, over say that A minor chord thingy.
Sing the tones in that chord, sing the tones next to it, fool around with it. The shape of it. What pleases you about this or that? Compare to what you think sounds good.

Then, you can proceed with some idea of what it is you are actually trying to do.

[Sepheritoh]

Nobody said you have to start in the root chord of the key, but that is by far the most common place to start. Many people confuse starting on a chord other than the I chord with modal music. If you play modal music and start on the Dm chord in the key of C you are actually starting on the I chord of the dorian key of D, etc. The most common alternative key to start with in the relative chord. For C, you have possibilities of G (dominant), F (sub), Am (relative minor or vi) or Dm as the relating monor of the sub dominant. Very rare to start on Em (relative of the dominant) in the key of C, but nothing said you can not do it. You can work out the appropriate chords in every other key and mode. Starting on any of those chords would mean you have to find a way of returing to the root key soon enough, or else you would not be establishing the tonal centre strong enough. For effect you start on anything else as well. Just remember break any rule you like, as long as you break the rule because you meant to, and not because you were not aware of the existance of the rule in the first place.

OK. I'm not really sure if I myself understand everything I just said, but basically it means you can do whatever you want.

[nuffink]

Here's a little rule of thumb...
"Up by 2nd, Down by 3rd, Up by 4th, Down by 5th
except V and vii°, which do not resolve to iii/III"

Lifted from... http://smu.edu/totw/function.htm

I dont understand quite what that means, ive looked at the site, but i cant read note sheets.

No worries. Take the white notes, C Major. Whichever chord you're at you can jump to the chord which begins one white note to the right or three white notes the right. Or you can jump to the chord which begins two white notes to the left or four white notes to the left. The same rule of thumb applies to any other key.

Again, this is highly simplified and no doubt the resident "just do it" clowns will pipe up, but thems the breaks.

[Meffy]

Whichever chord you're at you can jump to the chord which begins one white note to the right or three white notes the right. Or you can jump to the chord which begins two white notes to the left or four white notes to the left.

[nuffink]

Whichever chord you're at you can jump to the chord which begins one white note to the right or three white notes the right. Or you can jump to the chord which begins two white notes to the left or four white notes to the left.

Trust me, I'm a doctor.

It's the only good line in the whole miserable play/film.

[artlowell]

Also, there's absolutely no reason that you have to end up your chord sequence where you began. Key modulation can be a very motivating development in a tune. If you're intent on a recurring chord progression, you could study what is called "normal chord progression". It's a convention that was developed in, I think, the 19th century that sort of codified how the ear naturally wants to go from one chord to another. It's no longer the "law of the land" but it's a beginning.

I just googled "normal chord progression" and there's a wealth of articles on just what you are asking.

[artlowell]

Also, it's worth noting that practically all rock and roll tunes are based on a standard blues progression (I, IV, V). Pretty boring all by itself, but there is a universe of other things that songwriters have done to make it interesting. Compelling rhythmic patterns, interesting embellishments, instrument choices, intermediate chords, etc. (I'm thinking of a tune from an '80s tune by Vangelis called "State of Independence" that doesn't even have a chord progression! The rhythm is so compelling that the tune engages all your senses).

I might suggest that you pick a tune that you like and see if you can find a I, IV, V or a I, IV or a I, VII pattern and figure out what the artist did to make it interesting.