How to compose not starting at root note of a scale ?

[jancivil]

Here's a little rule of thumb...
"Up by 2nd, Down by 3rd, Up by 4th, Down by 5th
except V and vii°, which do not resolve to iii/III"

Lifted from... http://smu.edu/totw/function.htm

I dont understand quite what that means, ive looked at the site, but i cant read note sheets.

No worries. Take the white notes, C Major. Whichever chord you're at you can jump to the chord which begins one white note to the right or three white notes the right. Or you can jump to the chord which begins two white notes to the left or four white notes to the left. The same rule of thumb applies to any other key.

Again, this is highly simplified and no doubt the resident "just do it" clowns will pipe up, but thems the breaks.

I'm one o' them clowns.

Why is this used?? I've never heard of it IN MY LIFE. I've been an actual musician for nigh on forty years. I've had some real good theory teachers, who taught for realsies, how to make music using 'rules of thumb'.

Would you care to give an ACTUAL MUSICAL EXAMPLE of why, when, how, why one would resort to such a thing?

IE: what practice period, even? What kind of music 'as a rule' tends to use these 'guidelines'?
Is is necessarily good music? What's the actual idea here? And why not actually explain where V or vii resolve to, with some principles behind it? This information is useless as it reads. sure you'll get a formulaic result which 'sounds 'classical' if you do, but so what, and why, and are we actually in the 19th century, even so, why did they do it even then? CONTEXT. Where is it??

Have you remotely considered what style of music the OP is interested in? Or what the question actually is?
Or that it just might be too much information, that I'd bet money he or she can't actually use here? The OP is clearly a beginner, from the question posed.

Certainly use your ear is my advice. Play. That's how music gets made, that's what it's for.

[nuffink]

Here's a little rule of thumb...
"Up by 2nd, Down by 3rd, Up by 4th, Down by 5th
except V and vii°, which do not resolve to iii/III"

Lifted from... http://smu.edu/totw/function.htm

I dont understand quite what that means, ive looked at the site, but i cant read note sheets.

No worries. Take the white notes, C Major. Whichever chord you're at you can jump to the chord which begins one white note to the right or three white notes the right. Or you can jump to the chord which begins two white notes to the left or four white notes to the left. The same rule of thumb applies to any other key.

Again, this is highly simplified and no doubt the resident "just do it" clowns will pipe up, but thems the breaks.

I'm one o' them clowns.

Why is this used?? I've never heard of it IN MY LIFE. I've been an actual musician for nigh on forty years. I've had some real good theory teachers, who taught for realsies, how to make music using 'rules of thumb'.

Would you care to give an ACTUAL MUSICAL EXAMPLE of why, when, how, why one would resort to such a thing?

IE: what practice period, even? What kind of music 'as a rule' tends to use these 'guidelines'?
Is is necessarily good music? What's the actual idea here? And why not actually explain where V or vii resolve to, with some principles behind it? This information is useless as it reads. sure you'll get a formulaic result which 'sounds 'classical' if you do, but so what, and why, and are we actually in the 19th century, even so, why did they do it even then? CONTEXT. Where is it??

Have you remotely considered what style of music the OP is interested in? Or what the question actually is?
Or that it just might be too much information, that I'd bet money he or she can't actually use here? The OP is clearly a beginner, from the question posed.

Certainly use your ear is my advice. Play. That's how music gets made, that's what it's for.

Ah yes, it's that time of night again.

The mental old bag lady comes home from a hard days panhandling, slips off her street slippers, pours herself a nice refreshing glass of meths and logs on for a scream at the internet.

[nuffink]

...

[Kriminal]

I've been an actual musician for nigh on forty years.

no one is interested in has beens....and what is an 'actual musician' ?

[Subtle]

Thanks for all the replies people.

Many good explanations here, but i got to admit.. i dont still quite get it.

No worries. Take the white notes, C Major. Whichever chord you're at you can jump to the chord which begins one white note to the right or three white notes the right. Or you can jump to the chord which begins two white notes to the left or four white notes to the left. The same rule of thumb applies to any other key.

This seems like a great explanation, but i dont quite understand what u mean. good advice about using the white notes to find other chord starts.
But the "you can always jump too.." part i didnt get.

here is an example of the kind of music i like.

www.subtleinc.net/Example1.mp3
www.subtleinc.net/Example2.mp3
www.subtleinc.net/Example3.mp3

[Meffy]

nuffink, argue the arguments if you like but quit the personal slagging.

[nuffink]

nuffink, argue the arguments if you like but quit the personal slagging.

Oh come on, Meff. I can't make a f**king post on this forum without the mental old skank jumping all over it. What am I supposed to do? How can anybody get any useful theory information when some mad old twat goes postal after every post that a knowledgeable member makes?

Look. Subtle's still asking for advice. I'd like to help him but I'll be f**ked if I'll do it only to have Miss Haversham screaming at me and you protecting her.

Sort it out. At the moment the threat of a ban is stopping people from dealing with this garbage themselves and you're certainly not doing it.

Check back. I've held back for long enough.

[nuffink]

Thanks for all the replies people.

Many good explanations here, but i got to admit.. i dont still quite get it.

No worries. Take the white notes, C Major. Whichever chord you're at you can jump to the chord which begins one white note to the right or three white notes the right. Or you can jump to the chord which begins two white notes to the left or four white notes to the left. The same rule of thumb applies to any other key.

This seems like a great explanation, but i dont quite understand what u mean. good advice about using the white notes to find other chord starts.
But the "you can always jump too.." part i didnt get.

here is an example of the kind of music i like.

www.subtleinc.net/Example1.mp3
www.subtleinc.net/Example2.mp3
www.subtleinc.net/Example3.mp3

I'd like to help. Maybe you could ask the mental old bag lady.

[Meffy]

I am protecting nobody, I am saying you've got to be civil same as everyone else.

[edit] Im not saying you have to do battle with a bubble gun. I'm saying that you've got to argue the points, not just sling insults.

[nuffink]

I am protecting nobody, I am saying you've got to be civil same as everyone else.

It's become impossible to be civil to her. She hasn't got a f**king clue what she's talking about and all she does is post the same "just do it" crap (slightly reworded) after every post somebody who does know some theory makes. It's turning the theory forum into a joke.

[nuffink]

I am protecting nobody, I am saying you've got to be civil same as everyone else.

[edit] Im not saying you have to do battle with a bubble gun. I'm saying that you've got to argue the points, not just sling insults.

What points? She doesn't know any theory. It's a constant stream of self aggrandising crap leavened by the odd bit of A's to G's lifted from a post earlier in the thread. Again and again.

Would you like me to show you a few examples?

[nuffink]

Let's ask Subtle how much this helped shall we?..

But, more essentially, why is it that you think you want to 'compose' something?

This business of 'what chord tone', the safe direction of the intervals in a line, etc., are artifices. Useful when you're stuck, that kinda thing. Scales aren't music.

What is it you like to hear, that you want to emulate?

Cop those licks. Train your ear a little. Get to where you remember how things seem to be formed. THEN:

Go sing in the shower. Try to make up a melody, SING IT, over say that A minor chord thingy.
Sing the tones in that chord, sing the tones next to it, fool around with it. The shape of it. What pleases you about this or that? Compare to what you think sounds good.

Then, you can proceed with some idea of what it is you are actually trying to do.

[Subtle]

Let's ask Subtle how much this helped shall we?..

It seemed like a reasonable tip to me.

Hey. There is something else i want to ask too.

In this youtube video, some lady explains some "rules" about chord progressions.





In the video she explains how certain chords leads to each other, like the screenshot u can see there.

Which seems logical, but when tried in practise many of these chords can go many more places than showed in the video.

[Meffy]

@nuffink: That's what the mute is there for. *thumbs up*

[nuffink]

Let's ask Subtle how much this helped shall we?..

It seemed like a reasonable tip to me.

Hey. There is something else i want to ask too.

In this youtube video, some lady explains some "rules" about chord progressions.





In the video she explains how certain chords leads to each other, like the screenshot u can see there.

Which seems logical, but when tried in practise many of these chords can go many more places than showed in the video.

Can't help you mate. From now on my involvement in this thread will be restricted to filleting the mad old skank if she posts again. Maybe you could pm her and ask her for some help. Preferably some that doesn't involve you having to listen to her deathless genius.